When will this shit end?

[aj6658]

45 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

The QR code idea is what would make the most sense - similar to a gig ticket. Maybe even a glastonbury ticket with picture on

 

None of that logic is proportionate to essentially making it mandatory 

My logic - I don't have a degree in the stuff so I rely on experts 

Your "logic" - "Hey hunny, I found a Facebook post that no other scientist has thought of. Im smart. I know more than scientists. Look at me. Yes im very smart" 

I'll bring it up again. Is your knowledge better of the vaccine better than the experts? Can you list out your degrees please? 

130k people have died in the UK. The way to beat this virus is for all of us to work together. The more people who refuse the vaccine means more people who are at risk of dying or putting pressure on the NHS. Its more chances for mutations. 

Honestly its really not hard,

Hope this helps x

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

 

Genuine question: are you not able to furlough yourself as an employee of your limited company?

Yes, it's what I'm doing.

But you have to have been on PAYE before 1st April (rather than have been paying yourself from dividends).

What it means is that people who were lessening their income taxes lost out on furlough.

[efcfanwirral]

5 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

My logic - I don't have a degree in the stuff so I rely on experts 

Your "logic" - "Hey hunny, I found a Facebook post that no other scientist has thought of. Im smart. I know more than scientists. Look at me. Yes im very smart" 

I'll bring it up again. Is your knowledge better of the vaccine better than the experts? Can you list out your degrees please? 

130k people have died in the UK. The way to beat this virus is for all of us to work together. The more people who refuse the vaccine means more people who are at risk of dying or putting pressure on the NHS. Its more chances for mutations. 

Honestly its really not hard,

Hope this helps x

 

No need to be quite so condescending - I'm actually taking the vaccine but am 110% against the vaccine passport. To the point where I'll only use businesses that reject it

Who will be the next crowd that we're conditioned to hate and respond gleefully when they're excluded from society? Once we start down this road it won't just stop there 

Edited February 23, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Yes, it's what I'm doing.

But you have to have been on PAYE before 1st April (rather than have been paying yourself from dividends).

What it means is that people who were lessening their income taxes lost out on furlough.

Ah okay, I thought you still had to pay yourself minimum wage even if you took the rest as dividends, so you could still get some furlough.

[aj6658]

Just now, efcfanwirral said:

No need to be quite so condescending - I'm actually taking the vaccine but am 110% against the vaccine passport. To the point where I only use businesses that reject it

I think if people are arrogant enough to believe themselves smarter than doctors and experts on the vaccine because of some whacky reason (there are reasons like being pregnant which are understandable as there are no peer reviewed studies yet) and therefore not "in it together" then tough, you cant enjoy normal life like everyone else who is pulling together. 

Its great you're taking the vaccine but how else do you get people to take it other than incentives? I really don't like the pandering to "differing views" camp. 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Ah okay, I thought you still had to pay yourself minimum wage even if you took the rest as dividends, so you could still get some furlough.

Nope, loads of employment law doesn't apply to company directors - such as minimum wage.

Me, I'd LOVE to get minimum wage; it would more than double my wages.

[xxialac]

2 hours ago, st dan said:

They will have internal goals and targets for each of these criteria - they don’t need to share these with the public at all.

So we can state with confidence that the targets that need to be met to progress are the "most detailed of any country in the West"...despite not seeing a single one of the targets.

Hmm...

[Crazyfool01]

One of my colleagues today has returned after testing positive and isolating ... I asked her if test and trace had been in touch ... she said yes and she told them she had had no contacts .... she sits with someone different most days on her break and flirts with just about any male member of the team for more than 5 mins at a time .... I’m absolutely gobsmacked !! I shudder to think how many infections she might have caused ... of course we may have been lucky but bloody hell !! and our managers would have found out about her 0 contacts too 😞 

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

I think if people are arrogant enough to believe themselves smarter than doctors and experts on the vaccine because of some whacky reason (there are reasons like being pregnant which are understandable as there are no peer reviewed studies yet) and therefore not "in it together" then tough, you cant enjoy normal life like everyone else who is pulling together. 

Its great you're taking the vaccine but how else do you get people to take it other than incentives? I really don't like the pandering to "differing views" camp. 

I also will of course be taking the vaccine when offered, but I don’t think you can just dismiss those people that fall into the bolded category. Basically, every person under the age of 40 may be concerned about the vaccine if they are trying to conceive, or are planning to do so in the future. No conclusive study has been carried out yet to confirm that the vaccines will have no impact to this (although I’m sure that’s a formality). But each person does have the right to make their own decisions in line with their own thought process, however ‘wrong’ that might appear to some.  

There are a lot of people that aren’t ‘anti-vaxers’ but are slightly cautious at this stage, so early in the life of these vaccines. I believe to essential alienate them from society would be morally wrong. However those that that won’t take it because they don’t want Bill Gates to track them can get in the bin. 

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

So we can state with confidence that the targets that need to be met to progress are the "most detailed of any country in the West"...despite not seeing a single one of the targets.

Hmm...

Of course we can’t. Looks like the guy who tweeted it was stating that as a way of attacking Italy’s response (or lack of) at this time. 

[efcfanwirral]

20 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

I think if people are arrogant enough to believe themselves smarter than doctors and experts on the vaccine because of some whacky reason (there are reasons like being pregnant which are understandable as there are no peer reviewed studies yet) and therefore not "in it together" then tough, you cant enjoy normal life like everyone else who is pulling together. 

Its great you're taking the vaccine but how else do you get people to take it other than incentives? I really don't like the pandering to "differing views" camp. 

Then don't complain when your views are the "differing" ones and you are the one excluded from society. Once you create an environment where the "other" can be excluded history shows it is used. We aren't as advanced or civilised as we believe 

[swede]

2 hours ago, Mellotr0n said:

Exactly. Winter restrictions most likely = guidance on masks in shops/public transport. Not lockdowns.

My wife, who works in health care, made an interesting point last night. The potential mask wearing this winter could be down to them expecting a very high rate of flu infections as there hasn't been a lot of flu this winter due to the restrictions. 

She said if you look back at the data that after a slow winter for flu the following winter usually sees a lot of people getting very ill from it.  Couple that with a lot of people working from home who will have wonky immune systems from not going outside as much and we could be looking at a harsh winter in terms of flu. 

[incident]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

Basically, every person under the age of 40 may be concerned about the vaccine if they are trying to conceive, or are planning to do so in the future. No conclusive study has been carried out yet to confirm that the vaccines will have no impact to this (although I’m sure that’s a formality).

By the same token no conclusive study has ever proven the impact that eating your eggs fried, as opposed to poached, has on fertility. Which obviously is a scandal.

I don't have any patience for people worried about that, because anyone who is has either taken a huge logical leap or started listening to someone spouting bullshit.

The vaccine isn't initially being offered to pregnant women solely because it hasn't been tested on pregnant women yet. The fact that some people are extrapolating that to alleged "concerns" about being able to conceive, and I've even seen people mention male fertility, is simply taking that lack of evidence and drawing a whole other conclusion and lacks a basic understanding of how biology works. It also ignores the basic fact that the vaccines basically emulate a non destructive / virulent part of COVID - so if the vaccines could cause infertility then getting COVID itself is even more likely to do so.

[StuMalinas]

@Ozanne Brilliant Job on the Data Table yesterday, I think its a lot more informative now so thanks for taking the time to produce it! 

[xxialac]

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

[st dan]

Just now, incident said:

By the same token no conclusive study has ever proven the impact that eating your eggs fried, as opposed to poached, has on fertility. Which obviously is a scandal.

I don't have any patience for people worried about that, because anyone who is has either taken a huge logical leap or started listening to someone spouting bullshit.

The vaccine isn't initially being offered to pregnant women solely because it hasn't been tested on pregnant women yet. The fact that some people are extrapolating that to alleged "concerns" about being able to conceive, and I've even seen people mention male fertility, is simply taking that lack of evidence and drawing a whole other conclusion and lacks a basic understanding of how biology works. It also ignores the basic fact that the vaccines basically emulate a non destructive / virulent part of COVID - so if the vaccines could cause infertility then getting COVID itself is even more likely to do so.

So this is an issue that doesn’t bother you, and that’s fine. But it will bother some people - and the tricky part of all this is why are your views on this ‘right’ and theirs are ‘wrong’? Isn’t everybody entitled to their opinion, especially on matters that concerns them and their body? 
I actually agree with everything you have said, but I can certainly see the dodgy territory that excluding people that don’t want to take the vaccine will lead to. There is then the whole religious aspect which is an even more complex issue.  

[Rex2]

19 minutes ago, st dan said:

I also will of course be taking the vaccine when offered, but I don’t think you can just dismiss those people that fall into the bolded category. Basically, every person under the age of 40 may be concerned about the vaccine if they are trying to conceive, or are planning to do so in the future. No conclusive study has been carried out yet to confirm that the vaccines will have no impact to this (although I’m sure that’s a formality). But each person does have the right to make their own decisions in line with their own thought process, however ‘wrong’ that might appear to some.  

There are a lot of people that aren’t ‘anti-vaxers’ but are slightly cautious at this stage, so early in the life of these vaccines. I believe to essential alienate them from society would be morally wrong. However those that that won’t take it because they don’t want Bill Gates to track them can get in the bin. 

But there are studies showing that covid effects fertility, even in mild/moderate cases. They think this is likely only a short term effect as with other viruses but they don't know. Given the fact that covid has been shown to have lasting effects on different bodily systems I wouldn't be so sure that it doesn't have a lasting impact on fertility. 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, swede said:

My wife, who works in health care, made an interesting point last night. The potential mask wearing this winter could be down to them expecting a very high rate of flu infections as there hasn't been a lot of flu this winter due to the restrictions. 

She said if you look back at the data that after a slow winter for flu the following winter usually sees a lot of people getting very ill from it.  Couple that with a lot of people working from home who will have wonky immune systems from not going outside as much and we could be looking at a harsh winter in terms of flu. 

Then again, mask wearing has meant just 5% of expected colds and flu this winter.

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, StuMalinas said:

@Ozanne Brilliant Job on the Data Table yesterday, I think its a lot more informative now so thanks for taking the time to produce it! 

No problem, thanks for the suggestions and feedback!

Edited February 23, 2021 by Ozanne

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

Or they've made it artificially long with 5 week gaps and under promising on vaccines that they'll almost definitely make the target.

 

[Ozanne]

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

The idea isn’t that social distancing ends on 21 June, it’s that MANDATORY social distancing ends. I’m sure there will still be guidance to wear masks and avoid big crowds, but it’ll be voluntary which is how it should be. Let people define their own risk.

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Then again, mask wearing has meant just 5% of expected colds and flu this winter.

This is why I’d like to see mask wearing to continue especially for enclosed environments like public transport. 

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Then again, mask wearing has meant just 5% of expected colds and flu this winter.

I expect more people to mask wearing on the tube next winter anyway 

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The idea isn’t that social distancing ends on 21 June, it’s that MANDATORY social distancing ends. I’m sure there will still be guidance to wear masks and avoid big crowds, but it’ll be voluntary which is how it should be. Let people define their own risk.

We just have to accept that social distancing as a mandatory thing will rightly be put in the bin where it belongs June 21st onwards.