When will this shit end?

[mcshed]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Agree, also a lot of Corbyn era labour policies were actually popular in polling, and in line with the public's belief's- it's not the 90s anymore, something even Biden has realised, labour can embrace policies that it couldn't in the 90s. 

But you have to be centrist to win elections, this why we've lived through decades of uninterrupted Liberal Democrat rule only recently challenged by the electoral success of Change UK. 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah I don't get this either. If you've decided you're going to do what you like after a certain point then why the need to make sure everyone knows about it? Just crack on. As @Memory Man says above, you're only reallt going to be able to see your friends and family at home anyway if things are closed.

I feel like there's a lot of hysteria at the moment about every single news story on the restrictions. We don't know yet so let's see what gets said on the 22nd and stop finding reasons to panic/get angry/fight about it.

I understand being worried about the restrictions if you are going unsure if yuk are going to keep to the rules or even angry in general at the situation. But if you have already decided you are going to break the rules no matter what they are then I don’t really see why someone would get so worked up over it. 
 

I get being stuck between what to do as people want to see family but in this instance those people have decided the rules don’t matter. Yet seem to be the most invested in them. 

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I don't see what relevance the gender or parenting status or local weather conditions of this case have to do with anything.

It has a lot of relevance in this situation - it’s not a group of ten+ 18 year olds hanging round the beach with a crate of beers. It is a mother who has likely been WFH and attempting to homeschool her young child all day, and wanted a nice walk round her local beach with them both to refresh, reset and clear their heads. 
And she was met with a police caution and an initial fine for doing something as innocent as that. 

[Homer]

Tim Shipman is generally regarded as being very well connected in Westminster (wrote wat many regard as the definitive book/s on Brexit)

[fraybentos1]

I think it’s currently a hard wait for the deaths and hospitalisations to come right down. We know it’s coming but the figures still aren’t great. When it hits spring time and deaths drop etc and the weather improves, friends are gonna meet outside in parks etc. Last summer I saw a clear change in people’s behaviour and they became way more lax (even more so than the rules allowed) and I see no reason to see that not being increased with vaccines now in play too.

Example - Last summer for my friends bday we had about 8 of us round in his garden. Fast forward to this year and his parents have been vaxxed two doses by then, he will probs have had it as a trainee teacher, and one other friend is a trainee medic so has had two doses. Will just make us even more lax and rightfully so. 

[xxialac]

School return date must be 'signed in blood', Boris Johnson told

Tory backbenchers really are a pathetic bunch. If there's one thing we ought to have learned from this crisis, is that's it's folly to commit to things 100% as the picture is ever evolving and future data may show a tighter set of restrictions is needed.

Reminds me of the WW1 Generals sending their men into the German machine guns time after time. They feel immune to the consequences so it's easy to demand the world.

Edited February 12, 2021 by xxialac

[Mr.Tease]

42 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The tories are mopping all that up...state spending, levelling up, wave the flag, proud of our forces etc etc.

Yep, think the worst thing going forward (edit: for labour electorally😉) would be the Tories promising mass spending and investment, rebuilding manufacturing and industry in the north (think there will be a big rise in nationalism/desire for self sufficiency among voters), ambitious green projects, extra health spending, and mass investment in science and tech, while Labour opposes it/offers nothing but "oh we have to exercise caution- also we have no idea's on how two tackle any of the major problems we face, except 'being sensible' ".

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Mr.Tease

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

But you have to be centrist to win elections, this why we've lived through decades of uninterrupted Liberal Democrat rule only recently challenged by the electoral success of Change UK. 

I think the point is there has never been a left wing labour govt, probably the most radical was the Attlee one but Attlee was hardly left wing.

[duke88]

5 minutes ago, JB15 said:

If the government are going to keep social distancing guidelines until autumn/winter, even if everyone has been offered the chance of a vaccine, they will really need to do a good job of explaining why or they will lose people too soon, before it becomes safe. 
 

I’d say if everyone has been offered a vaccine, but some people reject that chance, and they still keep things like sports, funerals, weddings socially distant, people will not be with them 

Exactly - the people saying these things about ongoing restrictions need to understand that the messaging is so important in all this. If people think that one part of the rules are unreasonable and illogical, they'll just stop following all of them. If there's proper explanation, and people are given something that makes their life better, then they are more likely to understand and keep to the rules. Not everyone is as perfect and happy to follow such tough restrictions for ever as some people on here.

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I think the point is there has never been a left wing labour govt, probably the most radical was the Attlee one but Attlee was hardly left wing.

Attlee was hardly left wing? That’s some take fs he oversaw the creation of the welfare state as we know it today lol 

[Mr.Tease]

5 minutes ago, mcshed said:

But you have to be centrist to win elections, this why we've lived through decades of uninterrupted Liberal Democrat rule only recently challenged by the electoral success of Change UK. 

Fortunately by blaming and attacking the left , we never have to acknowledge or even think about such things- the Peoples Vote thing (probably the biggest disaster of a single issue campaign in living memory) never happened!

[JoeyT]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I think it’s currently a hard wait for the deaths and hospitalisations to come right down. We know it’s coming but the figures still aren’t great. When it hits spring time and deaths drop etc and the weather improves, friends are gonna meet outside in parks etc. Last summer I saw a clear change in people’s behaviour and they became way more lax (even more so than the rules allowed) and I see no reason to see that not being increased with vaccines now in play too.

Example - Last summer for my friends bday we had about 8 of us round in his garden. Fast forward to this year and his parents have been vaxxed two doses by then, he will probs have had it as a trainee teacher, and one other friend is a trainee medic so has had two doses. Will just make us even more lax and rightfully so. 

100%

For instance over what would have been glastonbury weekend last June we had a right knees up at my friend's farm.

About 12 adults and 6 kids during the afternoon and then lots of booze once the kids had all gone to grandparents etc. This was before vaccinations.

Do the government or anyone for that instance think this sort of thing didn't happen pre vaccine? Yet there are some who think it still won't be happening even with vaccines in the mix!

[Homer]

9 minutes ago, mcshed said:

But you have to be centrist to win elections, this why we've lived through decades of uninterrupted Liberal Democrat rule only recently challenged by the electoral success of Change UK. 

You don't seem to have mentioned the only three Labour administrations since the mid-70s (plus the Lib Dems have been in more recently than that too).

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Attlee was hardly left wing? That’s some take fs he oversaw the creation of the welfare state as we know it today lol 

is that a radical left wing policy? I think it was something our country desperately needed after the war.

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

100%

For instance over what would have been glastonbury weekend last June we had a right knees up at my friend's farm.

About 12 adults and 6 kids during the afternoon and then lots of booze once the kids had all gone to grandparents etc. This was before vaccinations.

Do the government or anyone for that instance think this sort of thing didn't happen pre vaccine? Yet there are some who think it still won't be happening even with vaccines in the mix!

You're confusing setting laws and rules for the public good with believing they won't be broken.

All laws and rules are broken. The existence of punishments for breaking the laws is evidence the lawmakers do expect them to be broken.

For example, it's illegal to hold your phone for as much as a moment while driving. Now the vast majority of drivers have at some stage broken this law. But that doesn't make it a bad law.

[Mr.Tease]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

is that a radical left wing policy? I think it was something our country desperately needed after the war.

Welcome to 'radical leftwing policy'- most of the time it's just what is practically necessary, challenging the status quo, vilified by the media.

Look at the difference between when Labour suggested a 4 day week, to a year later when the Tories started suggesting the possibility.

Seriously, what 'radical leftwing policies' scare you? Most of them poll well/have majority support when polled outside of party politics.

[DareToDibble]

Absolutely praying this “social distancing until autumn” is a sensationalist headline and not the actual plan. We moved the wedding a year to September 2021 and the worry is starting to have a big effect on my fiancé’s mental health. I’ve kept telling her to use the wedding as her light at the end of the tunnel and she’s now worried that’s not going to be possible. 
I think these things getting leaked are quite dangerous as I’m sure she’s not the only one who will have read that headline and just lost all faith.

[Mr.Tease]

17 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I think it’s currently a hard wait for the deaths and hospitalisations to come right down. We know it’s coming but the figures still aren’t great. When it hits spring time and deaths drop etc and the weather improves, friends are gonna meet outside in parks etc. Last summer I saw a clear change in people’s behaviour and they became way more lax (even more so than the rules allowed) and I see no reason to see that not being increased with vaccines now in play too.

Example - Last summer for my friends bday we had about 8 of us round in his garden. Fast forward to this year and his parents have been vaxxed two doses by then, he will probs have had it as a trainee teacher, and one other friend is a trainee medic so has had two doses. Will just make us even more lax and rightfully so. 

And all that helped lead us where we are today, just like the 'I'm not going without Christmas! I'm spending it with my family regardless' helped tip us into the absolute disaster of the past few weeks. I get the desperate need and want to spend time with friends and family, but can we please learn a bit of a lesson for what happens every time we say "f*** it! Let's just do whatever we like!'.

[squirrelarmy]

A large issue with this country is that politics has become tribal.

They know the government is shit but they’re afraid of change. You can’t convince the average little Englander to turn socialist over night. 

It’s got to be a gradual process. We don’t have a left wing majority in this country and shouting at people and telling them that they should support left wing policies is too much for them to handle and it will close their minds to the possibilities. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

Welcome to 'radical leftwing policy'- most of the time it's just what is practically necessary, challenging the status quo, vilified by the media.

Look at the difference between when Labour suggested a 4 day week, to a year later when the Tories started suggesting the possibility.

Seriously, what 'radical leftwing policies' scare you? Most of them poll well/have majority support when polled outside of party politics.

I'm not against left wing policies at all, just saying we haven't had any left wing labour governments. I guess Attlee's could be called left wing because of the welfare state and NHS, but wasn't this inevitable after WW2, and was happening elsewhere as part of rebuilding countries and societies. Attlee certainly wasn't a pacifist like Foot/Corbyn though. And I'm not scared of anything me, hard as fuck. Nationalise it all.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, DareToDibble said:

Absolutely praying this “social distancing until autumn” is a sensationalist headline and not the actual plan. We moved the wedding a year to September 2021 and the worry is starting to have a big effect on my fiancé’s mental health. I’ve kept telling her to use the wedding as her light at the end of the tunnel and she’s now worried that’s not going to be possible. 
I think these things getting leaked are quite dangerous as I’m sure she’s not the only one who will have read that headline and just lost all faith.

I'm sorry to hear about this which must be very stressful for your and your fiancee.

But no responsible government can guarantee certain events will go ahead.

Things can change between now and September and so it may not be possible.

On the positive everything at the moment is pointing to small scale events being allowed by then, and I'd say yes the headlines are overly negative. So I'd expect the best outcome but have a plan B just in case.

[mcshed]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think the point is there has never been a left wing labour govt, probably the most radical was the Attlee one but Attlee was hardly left wing.

My point was more that viewing everything as a competition along a single spectrum isn't particularly illuminating, people are a grab bag of ideals from all over the place often logically inconsistent with each other.

[zahidf]

Dutch to allow July festivals?

https://www.nme.com/news/music/european-festivals-covid-return-trials-holland-netherlands-trials-2873856

[blackred]

23 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yep, think the worst thing going forward would be the Tories promising mass spending and investment, rebuilding manufacturing and industry in the north (think there will be a big rise in nationalism/desire for self sufficiency among voters), ambitious green projects, extra health spending, and mass investment in science and tech, while Labour opposes it/offers nothing but "oh we have to exercise caution- also we have no idea's on how two tackle any of the major problems we face, except 'being sensible' ".

 

I mean, this sounds pretty good to me?

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

And all that helped lead us where we are today, just like the 'I'm not going without Christmas! I'm spending it with my family regardless' helped tip us into the absolute disaster of the past few weeks. I get the desperate need and want to spend time with friends and family, but can we please learn a bit of a lesson for what happens every time we say "f*** it! Let's just do whatever we like!'.

Good point linking it back to Christmas too and you are right we do need to learn from previous mistakes!