When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

I’m not saying they won’t be, but you will see a split night time economy where some venues will hold back on numbers and others won’t 

I dont think any clubs will limit numbers. They can't afford to do that.

[Fuzzy Afro]

At the end of the day there is going to be an exit wave whenever freedom day is announced. The virus has enough people to infect, between those who have chosen not to have the vaccine, those who can’t have it (children or those who are exempt for some medical reason) and the unlucky few who it doesn’t work on.

 

The argument is that waiting until all adults have been offered a second vaccine pushes that exit wave into September and October when the NHS is likely to be busier due to other respiratory viruses having the upper hand. If you think of who is protected by leaving it until then, it’s mainly healthy under 40’s who are highly unlikely to need hospital treatment if they’re infected. 
 

You basically have three choices:

 

1) Reopen now and deliberately infect a shit load of healthy young people (on top of the inevitable exit wave). Accept the long covid repercussions as well as a few unlucky hospitalisations and deaths. 
 

2) Reopen in September and have a smaller exit wave in terms of cases but the same if not higher in deaths, with serious pressure on the NHS.

 

3) Wait until spring 2022.

 

Option 2 is the one with the highest risk of overwhelming the NHS so that one is out and I don’t think the economy or society could handle another 9 months of lockdown so option 3 is a non-starter. That leaves option 1, where we take the exit wave on the chin now and reap the economic and personal freedom benefits. The big downside is that a lot of young people will end up with long covid, but that’s the least worst option IMO compared to potentially putting the NHS in danger in the autumn or another 9 months of lockdown. 

[jimmillen]

18 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

3 good points.

Some of the venues in my town on their social media pages are saying they'll stick to mixed tables etc and won't go back to people queuing at the bars which is interesting.

It’s been a very very long time since I worked behind a bar 🤦🏻‍♂️ But I reckon for larger venues with lots of space & tables they could serve at full capacity more efficiently through an app & table service.

From the publican’s point of view, the longer you’re queuing up, the longer you’re not drinking. If you can just order more to your table you drink more and spend more. And you’ve got to have staff out on the floor collecting glasses anyway - if they can do it on their way back from dropping off fresh ones, all the better.

Clearly that doesn’t work for all venues. If you’ve got a lot of customers standing then table service is no good!

Mind you, even then there’s room for improvement… click and collect drinks orders via app, like at McDonalds, maybe? 

It’s got to be better than the antics people go through to catch the barman’s eye in normal times 😂 Although maybe less likelihood of tips…

Edited July 5, 2021 by jimmillen

[dotdash79]

Just now, zahidf said:

I dont think any clubs will limit numbers. They can't afford to do that.

Night time economy is more than night clubs

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, dotdash79 said:

I’m not saying they won’t be, but you will see a split night time economy where some venues will hold back on numbers and others won’t 

Why would a venue hold back? They need the revenue, and now don't need to worry about an outbreak meaning having to close (or do they?)

Also, if don't need to do the table service thing why bother? Get more people in. Unless there are fewer people going out because nervous, but I think there will be a lot of people out. I can't wait to buy a drink at the bar.

[BobWillis2]

1 minute ago, dotdash79 said:

Night time economy is more than night clubs

Brasses? 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

It’s been a very very long time since I worked behind a bar 🤦🏻‍♂️ But I reckon for larger venues with lots of space & tables they could serve at full capacity more efficiently through an app & table service.

From the publican’s point of view, the longer you’re queuing up, the longer you’re not drinking. If you can just order more to your table you drink more and spend more…

Clearly that doesn’t work for all venues. If you’ve got a lot of customers standing then table service is no good!

Mind you, even then there’s room for improvement… click and collect drinks orders via app, like at McDonalds, maybe? 

It’s got to be better than the antics people go through to catch the barman’s eye in normal times 😂 Although maybe less likelihood of tips…

Haha yeah it's a bit better than waiting to catch the bartenders eye that's for sure. I think you are right about it working more for larger venues but then again as you say it means less people waiting at the bar so more drinking and money being spent.

[Fuzzy Afro]

I’d imagine most will keep the apps but also offer bar service too. 

[fraybentos1]

Table service only means less capacity so less profit making ability. No way bars will keep it when we get to big nights like Xmas eve and Hogmanay etc. My local is rammed on Xmas eve to the point you can barely move - nowhere is gonna turn that down.

[steviewevie]

Have Israel brought back mask wearing rules?

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Table service only means less capacity so less profit making ability. No way bars will keep it when we get to big nights like Xmas eve and Hogmanay etc. My local is rammed on Xmas eve to the point you can barely move - nowhere is gonna turn that down.

Depends if they can staff it I guess … the struggles to recruit hospitality workers are very real … they will max out whatever they can with the staff available I agree

[HalfAnIdiot]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Have Israel brought back mask wearing rules?

and, do they do table service? 

[efcfanwirral]

 

8 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’d imagine most will keep the apps but also offer bar service too. 

Wetherspoons always managed to make it work well before all this. The main one I'd go to was at Liverpool lime Street so always on a time limit with trains, and I always ended up getting drinks much quicker with the the app!

[HalfAnIdiot]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Table service only means less capacity so less profit making ability. No way bars will keep it when we get to big nights like Xmas eve and Hogmanay etc. My local is rammed on Xmas eve to the point you can barely move - nowhere is gonna turn that down.

Bars may need to compete for customers and also need to attract staff back from other jobs. Both could lead to a retaining table service, convenience for customers and tips for staff. Everyone wins. 

Major events will always diverge from this of course. 

[jimmillen]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Wetherspoons always managed to make it work well before all this. The main one I'd go to was at Liverpool lime Street so always on a time limit with trains, and I always ended up getting drinks much quicker with the the app!

I’ve never really used the Spoons app. 

Is it just for table service, or can you collect from the bar if ordering through the app? 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Depends if they can staff it I guess … the struggles to recruit hospitality workers are very real … they will max out whatever they can with the staff available I agree

Yeah, hadn't thought about staffing problems...

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

I’ve never really used the Spoons app. 

Is it just for table service, or can you collect from the bar if ordering through the app? 

I'm actually not sure! I've always only used it for table service. Bars usually mental (was! Will be again) at the one I go to so not sure picking up would be so easy! 

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

I’ve never really used the Spoons app. 

Is it just for table service, or can you collect from the bar if ordering through the app? 

Table service only 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Bars may need to compete for customers and also need to attract staff back from other jobs. Both could lead to a retaining table service, convenience for customers and tips for staff. Everyone wins. 

Major events will always diverge from this of course. 

I imagine it'll be a gradual thing some bars might keep on doing table service or app ordering for a bit which over time reduces back to how things were. Saying that though it does seem a few around me are happy with ordering at your table online and a member of staff brings it over. It might make the staff feel more comfortable if they haven't been fully vaccinated not having loads of people age the bar?

[Zacko]

3 hours ago, Matt42 said:

I just think it’s so bizarre to outright reject it and be kinda aggressive about it. It just stinks of insecure management that refuse to trust their employees or treat them like adults.

I’ve worked in environments that could be seen as toxic, and this is always the case. Irrational fears that your employees can’t be trusted without your supervision, to be point where the boss won’t even take a holiday.

I've spent a lot of the last year analysing labour market information as part of my job, and it's fascinating to see the completely differing approaches companies are taking. Some absolute fucking dinosaurs about. 

Really makes you appreciate working for a decent company! I know I really have this last year and a half. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Zacko

[jimmillen]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm actually not sure! I've always only used it for table service. Bars usually mental (was! Will be again) at the one I go to so not sure picking up would be so easy! 

 

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Table service only 

Ta. Hmmm, designing the pub of the future in my head now… 😂 

[steviewevie]

Whitty's three rules

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-suggests-guidelines-for-use-of-masks-after-19-july

[steviewevie]

Looking like they expect this winter to be pretty mad and may need to bring back a few restrictions.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Looking like they expect this winter to be pretty mad and may need to bring back a few restrictions.

They can stick their restrictions up their bum

[Fuzzy Afro]

TND has been briefed about potential vaccine passports for events and face nappies back on public transport in the winter. No legal limits on social contact.