When will this shit end?

[MrBarry465]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

'Hands up I got that wrong' ....

Fuck me I am sick of these hacks who think they can spout crap in the name of 'free speech'. This is a pandemic and this sort of misinformation hurts and kills people.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Copperface said:

We're a month into this programme, not two days. They knew approval for AZ was coming months before and still didn't put the infrastructure fully in place and get to a state of readiness to fire the starting gun within one or two days of that approval being given.

All of the major hub sites and mass vac sites are known but most are still incomplete and staff not in place. They won't be at full tilt for some weeks yet apparently. No idea what all this crap is about not revealing the site locations. They've already been published.

We were also fed a line that we would never be short of vaccine as we were assured that millions of doses were being manufactured in advance of approval, in a gamble designed to ensure that supply would not be the bottleneck. That went well....

Lastly, they've moved the goalposts completely with the lengthened period between doses, which is necessary precisely because they have screwed up the response and over promised.  While it is a  public health decision which imo has to to be taken in the circumstances - rather get more people less protected in a shorter time, than fewer people more protected over a longer period - and while the decision is reluctantly accepted by the govts medical advisors, the companies themselves have not said they approve. 

The government response, on a variety of levels has not been characterised by a few understandable mistakes, but by consistent ignorance, delay, incompetence and indecision driven by a confused and unworkable populist ideological outlook.

 

Agreed. More missteps by the government which are completely of their own making. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

'Hands up I got that wrong' ....

Fuck me I am sick of these hacks who think they can spout crap in the name of 'free speech'. This is a pandemic and this sort of misinformation hurts and kills people.

Exactly.

For these twats encouraging conspiracy theories, that are then manifestly debunked, the best thing to do is to put them on the BBC (as happened) show them up as fools and then never invite them back.

Let him rant and rave under free speech rules but on an obscure channel with 50 viewers from now on. 

 

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Exactly.

For these twats encouraging conspiracy theories, that are then manifestly debunked, the best thing to do is to put them on the BBC (as happened) show them up as fools and then never invite them back.

Let him rant and rave under free speech rules but on an obscure channel with 50 viewers from now on. 

 

There's an argument to say they shouldn't have that platform.

But the counter argument is that they should, as they get totally shown up to a wide audience.

[xxialac]

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

There's an argument to say they shouldn't have that platform.

But the counter argument is that they should, as they get totally shown up to a wide audience.

Yeah, I'm saying feed their ego once, which has the advantage of a) letting them make a tit of themselves and b) stopping them from saying that they weren't allowed to defend themselves.

 

[Homer]

27 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

There's an argument to say they shouldn't have that platform.

But the counter argument is that they should, as they get totally shown up to a wide audience.

That went so well with Farage.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

39 minutes ago, Copperface said:

We're a month into this programme, not two days. They knew approval for AZ was coming months before and still didn't put the infrastructure fully in place and get to a state of readiness to fire the starting gun within one or two days of that approval being given.

All of the major hub sites and mass vac sites are known but most are still incomplete and staff not in place. They won't be at full tilt for some weeks yet apparently. No idea what all this crap is about not revealing the site locations. They've already been published.

We were also fed a line that we would never be short of vaccine as we were assured that millions of doses were being manufactured in advance of approval, in a gamble designed to ensure that supply would not be the bottleneck. That went well....

Lastly, they've moved the goalposts completely with the lengthened period between doses, which is necessary precisely because they have screwed up the response and over promised.  While it is a  public health decision which imo has to to be taken in the circumstances - rather get more people less protected in a shorter time, than fewer people more protected over a longer period - and while the decision is reluctantly accepted by the govts medical advisors, the companies themselves have not said they approve. 

The government response, on a variety of levels has not been characterised by a few understandable mistakes, but by consistent ignorance, delay, incompetence and indecision driven by a confused and unworkable populist ideological outlook.

 

Man alive, were a month into rolling out the first vaccine. While they are both jabs they are different and require different behind the scenes mechanisms. 

Were day three of the Oxford vaccine - your car doesn't go from 0 to 60 without going up through the gears. Give it some time. 

If you expected to go from approval to 2 million jabs a week over night then more fool you. It was NEVER going to happen. 

I wish I lived in your world where things are perfect all the time.

Your talking about the biggest vaccination programme in the history of our country being delivered by one of the biggest most inefficient organisations on the planet - things will take time to get going it's a marathon not a sprint. 

Get some sense of perspective around the scale of the task what is and what is in the government / PHE / NHS control and what isn't. 

You cannot judge the vaccination programme yet - judge it when it's upto speed and bedded in. 

 

 

[zahidf]

Isn't the delay with vaccines because they have to wait 21 days after its in a vial to quality control it? To check for fungus growth?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

37 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Agreed. More missteps by the government which are completely of their own making. 

What do you think the government or anyone else in the UK for that matter should have done about the global glass vials shortage? Short of ramping up our own production (if we even have any companies in the UK that do it) we're a bit stuck. 

Which of the mandatory checks and training do you think should be removed for those dishing out a vaccine - for example do you think they should have a DBS check of do you think in current circumstances that's a nice to have? 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Man alive, were a month into rolling out the first vaccine. While they are both jabs they are different and require different behind the scenes mechanisms. 

Were day three of the Oxford vaccine - your car doesn't go from 0 to 60 without going up through the gears. Give it some time. 

If you expected to go from approval to 2 million jabs a week over night then more fool you. It was NEVER going to happen. 

I wish I lived in your world where things are perfect all the time.

Your talking about the biggest vaccination programme in the history of our country being delivered by one of the biggest most inefficient organisations on the planet - things will take time to get going it's a marathon not a sprint. 

Get some sense of perspective around the scale of the task what is and what is in the government / PHE / NHS control and what isn't. 

You cannot judge the vaccination programme yet - judge it when it's upto speed and bedded in. 

 

 

I dont like this govt but way to early to say they're fucking up. If we don't get 13 million by mid Feb, then yes I'd say they have.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Just now, zahidf said:

Isn't the delay with vaccines because they have to wait 21 days after its in a vial to quality control it? To check for fungus growth?

Nah - it's the Government. 

 

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont like this govt but way to early to say they're fucking up. If we don't get 13 million by mid Feb, then yes I'd say they have.

Exactly! 

[Copperface]

3 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Man alive, were a month into rolling out the first vaccine. While they are both jabs they are different and require different behind the scenes mechanisms. 

Were day three of the Oxford vaccine - your car doesn't go from 0 to 60 without going up through the gears. Give it some time. 

If you expected to go from approval to 2 million jabs a week over night then more fool you. It was NEVER going to happen. 

I wish I lived in your world where things are perfect all the time.

Your talking about the biggest vaccination programme in the history of our country being delivered by one of the biggest most inefficient organisations on the planet - things will take time to get going it's a marathon not a sprint. 

Get some sense of perspective around the scale of the task what is and what is in the government / PHE / NHS control and what isn't. 

You cannot judge the vaccination programme yet - judge it when it's upto speed and bedded in. 

 

 

Siri....define irony.

 

 

Seriously though, I've been spouting off for 10 months that programme will be massive and laborious, and will take many, many months, and took quite a few brickbats and downvotes due to pointing that out from a very early stage. So yes, I think I do know it's a marathon.

So when do you think it will be up to speed and bedded in? 

[FestivalJamie]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont like this govt but way to early to say they're fucking up. If we don't get 13 million by mid Feb, then yes I'd say they have.

Agreed. At the end of the day they shouldn’t be announcing 13-14 million first dose by mid fed. That’s over 2 million a week. At the moment we are hitting about 400,000 a week. It’s not a realistic target so why announce unrealistic numbers...again?

[Guest]

 

6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Man alive, were a month into rolling out the first vaccine. While they are both jabs they are different and require different behind the scenes mechanisms. 

Were day three of the Oxford vaccine - your car doesn't go from 0 to 60 without going up through the gears. Give it some time. 

If you expected to go from approval to 2 million jabs a week over night then more fool you. It was NEVER going to happen. 

I wish I lived in your world where things are perfect all the time.

Your talking about the biggest vaccination programme in the history of our country being delivered by one of the biggest most inefficient organisations on the planet - things will take time to get going it's a marathon not a sprint. 

Get some sense of perspective around the scale of the task what is and what is in the government / PHE / NHS control and what isn't. 

You cannot judge the vaccination programme yet - judge it when it's upto speed and bedded in. 

 

 

That doesn’t combat any of the points that Copperface raised unfortunately. It just seems to be a narrative you’d here from someone behind a podium at number 10.

They are very valid points raised which doesn’t mean they aren’t acknowledging that this is a new and ambitious vaccination program. Some of the points raised are talking about facts that have happened so therefore can be critiqued or praised. 
 

The underlying point here is that the government has made so many mistakes  that confidence in them is at an all time low so it’s perfectly understandable that people have doubts here and can see early mistakes or signs of mistakes. 

 

[xxialac]

 

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont like this govt but way to early to say they're fucking up. If we don't get 13 million by mid Feb, then yes I'd say they have.

There is NO CHANCE they will do 13 million by mid Feb.

No chance at all.

It's pie in the sky numbers plus we're being 'led' by a bunch of incompetents.

Zahawi showed himself up on Radio 4 this morning to be another one out of his depth - no grasp of detail, rambling, deflecting.

They'll start shifting the terminology and start sending out a tonne of appointment letters for the future and count those as if those are actual vaccines. Mark my words.

They'll do something like 7-10 vaccinations OFFERED by mid Feb and give themselves a huge slap on the back for this. What the NHS are doing is "unprecedented" etc. When it succeeds properly it will be the government that did it, when it fails it will be the NHS that failed.

But it just won't be enough and we will in a more parlous state generally than equivalent countries without piss-poor leadership. 

And that will be on them.

Edited January 6, 2021 by xxialac

[MEGABOWL]

15 hours ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

He's 10 so can fend for himself (in the context of being in the home). The difficulty is going to come with keeping him on task with his school work, while we are trying to juggle work.

He is going to be having, 3 one hour teams calls a day - which is super excited about as he gets to be like his mum and me. He already does Spainish on Skype once a week so he will be fairly ok with it. 

So we are very lucky in that sense but it's not without its difficult moments hence trying to split my day a bit more. 

I have a very relaxed employer that is actively encouraging us to take the opportunity for walks and exercise during the working day to make the most of daylight. Obviously this is on trust and there is still an expectancy that our work doesn't suffer too much. Fortunately a lot of my specific concerns are either directly involved in Covid response or the things in place from spring are still working / fit for purpose so this might coincide with a natural lull in immediate pressures. 

 

We'll just have to see how it goes over the next few weeks and how well our routines adapt.

Cool. Finding a routine seems to be key. We managed it in April but we had that lucky break with the Weather whereas this time it’s us vs a Scottish Winter and the short days. There’s definitely fatigue too. The 6-year-old is struggling not seeing his Grandparents (he’s seen one pair once in the last year). Just about to go and have a discussion with U.K. wife about how we get the odd bit of time to ourselves around all this. I don’t really have a plan if I’m being honest. Once again the Treadmill and Exercise Bike in the Garage are in for a busy few weeks 😀

[stuartbert two hats]

Remember those graphs from a week or so back, showing the variant breakdown by region at the start of December?  I've had a look around the internet and not found them, anyone know where to look for updated data?

[jparx]

Just now, xxialac said:

 

There is NO CHANCE they will do 13 million by mid Feb.

No chance at all.

It's pie in the sky numbers plus they're being 'led' by a bunch of incompetents.

Zahawi showed himself up on Radio 4 this morning to be another one out of his depth - no grasp of detail, rambling, deflecting.

They'll start shifting the terminology and start sending out a tonne of appointment letters for the future and count those as if those are actual vaccines. Mark my words.

They'll do something like 7-10 vaccinations OFFERED by mid Feb and give themselves a huge slap on the back for this. What the NHS are doing is "unprecedented" etc. When it succeeds properly it will be the government that did it, when it fails it will be the NHS that failed.

But it just won't be enough and we will in a more parlous state generally than equivalent countries without piss-poor leadership. 

And that will be on them.

Which is ridiculous because if they just said “5 million by mid February” I think most people would have thought “yeah, sounds a good target”, particularly looking at the rate other countries are going at, and they would probably smash beyond that target by a few million.

They score so many own goals.

[MEGABOWL]

7 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Agreed. At the end of the day they shouldn’t be announcing 13-14 million first dose by mid fed. That’s over 2 million a week. At the moment we are hitting about 400,000 a week. It’s not a realistic target so why announce unrealistic numbers...again?

They never learn. If they said they were aiming for a million a week and achieved it, great, everybody’s happy. They do nobody any favours by over-forecasting.

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Agreed. At the end of the day they shouldn’t be announcing 13-14 million first dose by mid fed. That’s over 2 million a week. At the moment we are hitting about 400,000 a week. It’s not a realistic target so why announce unrealistic numbers...again?

Its a target we can measure them by. I'm glad they've given us one rather than not, and the fact they are doing daily figures from Monday. Better than us not getting anything!

I think we are week 1 into lockdown 3.0 so it's better to start off with some positivity rather than WE ARE ALL DOOMED.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Agreed. At the end of the day they shouldn’t be announcing 13-14 million first dose by mid fed. That’s over 2 million a week. At the moment we are hitting about 400,000 a week. It’s not a realistic target so why announce unrealistic numbers...again?

it's a realistic target, as long as the vaccine is available. The UK is used to doing massive vaccination programmes at speed with the flu jab, and we should be able to achieve a lot more for the bigger priority of covid.

My worry is that they've pretty-much created a new system for covid, where they might not have tapped into the best ideas. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed, it's one part of covid where the UK really should do better than most other big-population countries.

But as far as announcing it goes, it's a no-lose politically. If they hit the numbers they can claim success, and if they don't they can blame vaccine supply.

[dingbat2]

1 hour ago, MrBarry465 said:

There's an argument to say they shouldn't have that platform.

But the counter argument is that they should, as they get totally shown up to a wide audience.

I hoped that would be the case with Boris, but alas he's still here

Edited January 6, 2021 by dingbat2

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Its a target we can measure them by. I'm glad they've given us one rather than not, and the fact they are doing daily figures from Monday. Better than us not getting anything!

I think we are week 1 into lockdown 3.0 so it's better to start off with some positivity rather than WE ARE ALL DOOMED.

How's being positive worked so far?

 

[Mr.Tease]

Brilliant, they really didn't bother with any contingency planning:

Absolute idiots

[eFestivals]

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

85 years old.

Admitted to hospital with non-covid a week ago.

No vaccination offered.

Tested 3 times since admission.

Positive test today.

Currently asymptomatic.

20% of deaths are from hospital acquired covid.

Fingers firmly crossed.😞

So far so good. 🙂 

Forgot to include in that that the hospital is closed to visitors so the infection must have come from staff or other patients (on a specialist non-covid ward).

Also forgot to include that patient was due for discharge but is now stuck in hospital to self-isolate for 2 weeks (tho with covid at that age, an excellent place to be!).

-----

It's raised an interesting question about the daily covid stats. Does a patient who catches covid in hospital become one of the numbers on the dashboard for admitted to hospital with covid?