2021 Headliners

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

I think some are forgetting Caroline Flack and trial by media. To me it makes sense for them to have waited until the day before to announce it. He’s done an awful thing and has rightly been punished, but until now the media were none the wiser and regardless of what he’s done, if Kasabian had distanced themselves earlier he would’ve been hounded the whole time.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Cream Soda]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Dou not think that abusing a woman and abusing a child are entirely dissimilar? Both will be left with scars and emotional damage for the rest of their life.

I don’t see these things on a ladder of bad to most bad, they are both awful things to do and both don’t get wiped away with a “sorry” and 200 hours of community service.

There's a reason why one got community service and the other got about 30 years.

[Jcatley]

1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

I don’t understand what the type of music has to do with the actions though. It seems like a shoehorned attempt to discredit music styles that somebody doesn’t particularly like. Just a weird thing to hang on to.

 Very true, probably get instances of this occurring across all cultures. To me, it just seems like this was used as an opportunity to attack on a particular genre/culture due to personal tastes 

[fatyeti24]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Horrendous. I’m off. This is why nothing ever changes because people never want to get to the roots of any issues or identify ways in which culture can be better. It’s not seeing things in simplistic terms it’s actually trying to have a proactive approach to these problems.

The fans want him to come back to music because they’l miss the tunes, they don’t care about what he’s done. That’s the simplistic and shallow view.

And this is why things will never change. People have too much pride. It’s not vilifying, it’s opening conversations about how cultures can enable and develop these kind of behaviours. All I’m asking is for there to be more open discussions about how we can unknowingly contribute towards this culture. Lose some fucking pride and maybe step back and admit that we can all do better. Jesus Christ.

 

Do you not think that abusing a woman and abusing a child are entirely dissimilar? Both will be left with scars and emotional damage for the rest of their life.

I don’t see these things on a ladder of bad to most bad, they are both awful things to do and both don’t get wiped away with a “sorry” and 200 hours of community service.

That's where you and the justice system of the UK diverge, I suspect.

[Matt42]

I am genuinely reading some comments here that are shocking me to my core. I’m disgusted.

[CaledonianGonzo]

10 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Will this really derail him in such a way that he is eternally blacklisted? John Lennon is remembered fondly by most and he beat the shit out of several women. 

I'm not sure most people knew about that whilst he was still alive.

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I am genuinely reading some comments here that are shocking me to my core. I’m disgusted.

Which comments specifically? We can try having a grown up discussion if you’d like?

[SwedgeAntilles]

Blindly defending your own hot take in the face of more nuanced arguments is a helluva hill to die on. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by SwedgeAntilles
Can't fucking type.

[fatyeti24]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I am genuinely reading some comments here that are shocking me to my core. I’m disgusted.

Point them out.  Let's discuss this.

[Gilgamesh69]

17 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Separate the art from the artist. 

Yeah I'd maybe agree but don't think Kasabian have made anything resembling art lol

 

 

[IntoTheSurf]

16 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Will this really derail him in such a way that he is eternally blacklisted? John Lennon is remembered fondly by most and he beat the shit out of several women. 

You left your profile picture as an album by a paedophile for months so probably not

[Gilgamesh69]

4 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

That's where you and the justice system of the UK diverge, I suspect.

That's just further evidence that the UK justice system is fucked then. At first I was thinking he'd probably have gotten a harsher sentence if he wasn't a celebrity. But then I've also been made aware that sentences for these things are often light, especially if it's the first time. But who knows what other shit he's done that we don't know about?

 

"Yeah I assaulted her and dragged her around by her ankles, leaving her beaten and bruised. But I only did it once!"

[Superunknown]

7 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Which comments specifically? We can try having a grown up discussion if you’d like?

Optimistic

[Jcatley]

I have made it clear many times that I am disgusted by his actions and for me, I couldn’t support any comeback. 

But the justice system is there for a reason, he now needs to rehabilitate, get through whatever issues he ever did have before this and ensure that he becomes a better person. Whatever he chooses to do after that is down to him and if people choose to support him it will be down to their personal morals (rightly or wrongly). Let’s not forget what the media done to Caroline Flack by seemingly cut out any form of recovery for her.

Ultimately my sympathy lies with his ex fiancée, but as tough as it is to accept, the justice system is there to protect all parties.

[Quark]

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I am genuinely reading some comments here that are shocking me to my core. I’m disgusted.

I find it pretty shocking that someone is equating what is currently a single case of domestic abuse with this, but here we are.

"On 26 November, Watkins pleaded guilty to attempted rape and sexual assault of a child under 13, but not guilty to rape. This was accepted by the prosecution. He further pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault involving children; six counts of taking, making, or possessing indecent images of children; and one count of possessing an extreme pornographic image involving a sex act on an animal. His victims included a baby boy, and he sent a text message to the mother of one victim that said, "If you belong to me, so does your baby." 

"The judge said the case "plunged into new depths of depravity".[19] A senior investigating officer on the case described Watkins as a "committed, organised paedophile" and "potentially the most dangerous sex offender" he had ever seen."

[kingcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I am genuinely reading some comments here that are shocking me to my core. I’m disgusted.

What Tom Meighan has done is terrible and I think most, if not all, people on here would agree that 200 hours community service is a far too lenient sentence for this, particularly given he didn’t appear to show any admittance/remorse until he was shown the CCTV evidence. However, that doesn’t make it equally comparable to Ian Watkins. 

I think Tom Meighan will struggle to come back from this and rightly so. It’s a bit different to the likes of John Lennon which most people probably aren’t aware of, this is a story that’s being heavily publicised at a time when stories like this are talked about more due to the Me Too movement. I don’t think people will move on from this as quickly.

[Hugh Jass]

5 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yeah I'd maybe agree but don't think Kasabian have made anything resembling art lol

 

 

I’m enjoying Gilg’s attempts to add some levity to this discussion.

[Matt42]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

Which comments specifically? We can try having a grown up discussion if you’d like?

I know when I’m trying to debate with people who just don’t get it at all. It’s exhausting. 
 

I said there is a problem in music / indie culture of fans excusing behaviour. Instead of opening that discussion it immediately jumps to “not all indie/band fans”. Completely derailing from the original point and leaving it stand.

 

The fact that many users here still seem adamant to give him the benefit of the doubt, they are not questioning the sentence, and instead thinking about his feelings rather in a trial by media rather than actually engaging with the wider problems.

 

This is what I’m disgusted by. Everyone just wants to talk about something else. Instead of acknowledging that there is a problem they just throw something else out there. Plus, the whataboutery “what about this celebrity” “what about this celebrity”... it just completely takes the attention away from the original point.

 

@dentalplanis trying to rope this in another way that I’m just coming after indie fans which is infuriating. Yet again, derailing the conversation so we don’t actually talk about the problem.

No one wants to acknowledge a problem exists where fans of bands who have members doing awful things would much rather just sweep the issue under the rug than actually have a conversation about an issue. People have too much pride and run to try and count themselves out, or proclaim their own innocence, rather than address that there is a culturally problem. 
 

it’s not just a few pricks on the Internet if this happens every time!

[SwedgeAntilles]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

I’m enjoying Gilg’s attempts to add some levity to this discussion.

I feel like I want to leap to the defence of West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum but it doesn't feel like the time or the place at the moment. 

[Hugh Jass]

Just now, SwedgeAntilles said:

I feel like I want to leap to the defence of West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum but it doesn't feel like the time or the place at the moment. 

The West Ryder Paupers have certainly taken over the asylum right now.

[Superunknown]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

I know when I’m trying to debate with people who just don’t get it at all. It’s exhausting. 
 

I said there is a problem in music / indie culture of fans excusing behaviour. Instead of opening that discussion it immediately jumps to “not all indie/band fans”. Completely derailing from the original point and leaving it stand.

 

The fact that many users here still seem adamant to give him the benefit of the doubt, they are not questioning the sentence, and instead thinking about his feelings rather in a trial by media rather than actually engaging with the wider problems.

 

This is what I’m disgusted by. Everyone just wants to talk about something else. Instead of acknowledging that there is a problem they just throw something else out there. Plus, the whataboutery “what about this celebrity” “what about this celebrity”... it just completely takes the attention away from the original point.

 

@dentalplanis trying to rope this in another way that I’m just coming after indie fans which is infuriating. Yet again, derailing the conversation so we don’t actually talk about the problem.

No one wants to acknowledge a problem exists where fans of bands who have members doing awful things would much rather just sweep the issue under the rug than actually have a conversation about an issue. People have too much pride and run to try and count themselves out, or proclaim their own innocence, rather than address that there is a culturally problem. 
 

it’s not just a few pricks on the Internet if this happens every time!

You brought up Ian Watkins ffs

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I know when I’m trying to debate with people who just don’t get it at all. It’s exhausting. 
 

I said there is a problem in music / indie culture of fans excusing behaviour. Instead of opening that discussion it immediately jumps to “not all indie/band fans”. Completely derailing from the original point and leaving it stand.

 

The fact that many users here still seem adamant to give him the benefit of the doubt, they are not questioning the sentence, and instead thinking about his feelings rather in a trial by media rather than actually engaging with the wider problems.

 

This is what I’m disgusted by. Everyone just wants to talk about something else. Instead of acknowledging that there is a problem they just throw something else out there. Plus, the whataboutery “what about this celebrity” “what about this celebrity”... it just completely takes the attention away from the original point.

 

@dentalplanis trying to rope this in another way that I’m just coming after indie fans which is infuriating. Yet again, derailing the conversation so we don’t actually talk about the problem.

No one wants to acknowledge a problem exists where fans of bands who have members doing awful things would much rather just sweep the issue under the rug than actually have a conversation about an issue. People have too much pride and run to try and count themselves out, or proclaim their own innocence, rather than address that there is a culturally problem. 
 

it’s not just a few pricks on the Internet if this happens every time!

Caroline Flack basically did exactly the same thing, do you therefore agree with the media hounding her until she killed herself?

[FuzzyDunlop]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I said there is a problem in music / indie culture of fans excusing behaviour. Instead of opening that discussion it immediately jumps to “not all indie/band fans”. Completely derailing from the original point and leaving it stand.

This is the same argument as the people who blame Grime Music for people being stabbed.

------------

Tom may still have a career, Chris Brown has managed it.

But Even from only 10 years ago, times have now changed. Me too has highlighted famale's plight.

Tom has made himself look a bastard. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by FuzzyDunlop

[Matt42]

Just now, Superunknown said:

You brought up Ian Watkins ffs

Again. Not talking about the problem.

I brought up Ian Watkins because its clear we don’t allow a platform for abusers in the music industry since artists are influential people and have a gigantic platform. I used Ian Watkins as an example that sometimes rehabilitation is not enough to let someone go back to their career.

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I know when I’m trying to debate with people who just don’t get it at all. It’s exhausting. 
 

I said there is a problem in music / indie culture of fans excusing behaviour. Instead of opening that discussion it immediately jumps to “not all indie/band fans”. Completely derailing from the original point and leaving it stand.

 

The fact that many users here still seem adamant to give him the benefit of the doubt, they are not questioning the sentence, and instead thinking about his feelings rather in a trial by media rather than actually engaging with the wider problems.

 

This is what I’m disgusted by. Everyone just wants to talk about something else. Instead of acknowledging that there is a problem they just throw something else out there. Plus, the whataboutery “what about this celebrity” “what about this celebrity”... it just completely takes the attention away from the original point.

 

@dentalplanis trying to rope this in another way that I’m just coming after indie fans which is infuriating. Yet again, derailing the conversation so we don’t actually talk about the problem.

No one wants to acknowledge a problem exists where fans of bands who have members doing awful things would much rather just sweep the issue under the rug than actually have a conversation about an issue. People have too much pride and run to try and count themselves out, or proclaim their own innocence, rather than address that there is a culturally problem. 
 

it’s not just a few pricks on the Internet if this happens every time!

But again... who? Point me to one post where someone has said the sentence is adequate. I don’t think I have seen a single person on here express any sympathy for the man.