When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

Apparently swimming pools will be kept shut for the time being. The fitness industry have been lobbying the government hard over gyms reopening. 

[Quark]

It's a tricky one.  On the one hand I know that my gym has a lot of space, so you can reasonably keep appropriate distance. So long as you wipe surfaces, wash hands and use your towel to wipe your face, that kind of contamination could be kept under control.

It's the airborne stuff that's the problem.

If music venues and the like can't be opened because of singing, shouting, cheering etc, I don't see how gyms can be? The heavy breathing / effort must be comparable.

EDIT: as much as I'd love it to be open.  Managing alright in my garage, but I could do with some heavier kit for a couple of lifts.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Quark

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, Quark said:

If music venues and the like can't be opened because of singing, shouting, cheering etc, I don't see how gyms can be? The heavy breathing / effort must be comparable.

They’ll just have to ban the singalong stuff. No Killers or Macca, plenty of Radiohead and Chemicals though. 

[Quark]

Just now, squirrelarmy said:

They’ll just have to ban the singalong stuff. No Killers or Macca, plenty of Radiohead and Chemicals though. 

Chin stroking gigs only. I like it.

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, Quark said:

It's a tricky one.  On the one hand I know that my gym has a lot of space, so you can reasonably keep appropriate distance. So long as you wipe surfaces, wash hands and use your towel to wipe your face, that kind of contamination could be kept under control.

It's the airborne stuff that's the problem.

If music venues and the like can't be opened because of singing, shouting, cheering etc, I don't see how gyms can be? The heavy breathing / effort must be comparable.

You've hit the nail on the head with the problem, it means that the "appropriate distance" is way more than 2m.  It seems much more dangerous than anything that's open at the moment.  There are alternatives, especially while the weather is good. I really wouldn't risk it.

And I'm not convinced that your towel is enough to keep contamination under control, not unless you regularly dowse your towel in 70% alcohol.

[Quark]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

You've hit the nail on the head with the problem, it means that the "appropriate distance" is way more than 2m.  It seems much more dangerous than anything that's open at the moment.  There are alternatives, especially while the weather is good. I really wouldn't risk it.

And I'm not convinced that your towel is enough to keep contamination under control, not unless you regularly dowse your towel in 70% alcohol.

What % is chloroform?

[Zoo Music Girl]

Will watch the gym announcement with interest! Mine has been shut and my payments frozen since March. Will be interested to see how it's going to work. If I'm paying for it I will want to go of course, but they might give the option to freeze for a bit longer. My issue is that I only ever do classes (plus swim/steam/sauna, which I guess won't be on the cards) so I really want to know how they are going to manage class sizes and booking. There is a booking process normally but no bugger follows it. I don't want to be in a position where I am paying for something I can barely use - may as well just carry on at home.

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

What % is chloroform?

If you’re using chloroform in your pool I’m not coming for a swim

[Toilet Duck]

Just now, squirrelarmy said:

If you’re using chloroform in your pool I’m not coming for a swim

😂

[Quark]

Just now, squirrelarmy said:

If you’re using chloroform in your pool I’m not coming for a swim

come on in, the water's sdfkvohjgfa......

[efcfanwirral]

31 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Do you think it would go down well if I started a thread titled "Don't Go To The Gym"?

 

In all seriousness, the gym is pretty much the highest risk place.  Over time as the prevalence of COVID in the community falls, the absolute risk of going to the gym falls, but if you're in a high risk group (I.e. type 1 diabetes), then I would probably wait a good long while before going back.  Swimming seems to be different, or at least its a bit more controversial, given the chlorine helping kill the virus.  But I'm not aware of much strong data around swimming pools, I think the changing rooms are considered to be a bit risky. 

I agree with this - I get that there are businesses that want to open, and people who want to go to the gym, but I really hope that they're honest about the risks in this briefing and don't try to claim that it's possible to make a gym "COVID-safe" (or that the risk is SO low now) because it really really isn't 

Edited July 9, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Toilet Duck]

42 minutes ago, jparx said:

My limited understanding of how it works with getting a vaccine approved for use is that it won't just be approved because it's the first and we're in a hurry. There are stringent checks involved, and if Oxford do get this out ASAP it will have to be safe and have a good enough degree of effectiveness to be worthwhile.

I'm sure our glorious leader @Toilet Duck can speak more to it!

Ah here lads, I'm feeling under a lot of pressure now!

Basically, yes, there are multiple stages to approving any drug or vaccine. Phase 1 checks toxicity for the most part, whether the drug or vaccine works is not the main question being asked (there are not enough patients/volunteers at this stage to accurately measure whether it works or not...you might get an inkling, but it will unlikely be statistically significant). Different doses etc are usually checked at this stage to help inform the next one. Phase 2 looks in more patients/volunteers, at this stage you are hoping to see some evidence that it actually works, and this is often the most successful part of any trial since patients/volunteers are usually carefully selected to give the best indication of whether it will work or not. Phase 3 then tests the dose, route of administration, scheduling etc  determined from the previous phases in a large number of patients/volunteers and is the final part of testing. Many drugs/vaccines that get to this stage fail, most commonly due to not working any better than other alternatives. After Phase 3, if it works, the product is approved for use. Ongoing pharmacovigilance (i.e., people taking the drug or vaccine reporting side effects they suffer) is then required to look at the long term impact of use and to pick out any unforeseen side effects. These can be serious and lead to the drug/vaccine being withdrawn, or they can be managed but need to be looked out for (or it can identify a cohort of patients that its not suitable for, so they don't get offered it anymore). The Oxford vaccine is heading into its Phase 3 study later in the summer recruiting volunteers in Brazil and elsewhere with sustained community spread. They had a version of this in humans last year, so they have some information on the longer term safety, but they are following all the normal steps to get a medicinal product approved.

Is there a possibility that when given to half the world we might see some unpredictable side effects in the longer term? Sure. There always is with every drug or vaccine. But based on the data from the phase 3 trial, you would expect them to be rare.

[zeppelin]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I really hope that they're honest about the risks in this briefing and don't try to claim that it's possible to make a gym "COVID-safe" (or that the risk is SO low now)

You know this is exactly what they're going to do. And use the "following the science" reasoning. 

I actually do really want to get back to the gym. I've failed at implementing any form of exercise into my routine and have now moved back into my flat so don't even have a garden to get out into. 

But obviously waiting to see how it opens and whether I feel safe doing it (for me and others). I'm with Nuffield who have already said you can continue to freeze your membership til you feel safe so at least that option is there. 

[FestivalJamie]

Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it yet, but daily cases are +642 today, which means the daily increase is higher than this time last week, which means that cases have stopped falling, presumably due to the effects of the unlocking last Saturday.

[Zoo Music Girl]

7 minutes ago, zeppelin said:

You know this is exactly what they're going to do. And use the "following the science" reasoning. 

I actually do really want to get back to the gym. I've failed at implementing any form of exercise into my routine and have now moved back into my flat so don't even have a garden to get out into. 

But obviously waiting to see how it opens and whether I feel safe doing it (for me and others). I'm with Nuffield who have already said you can continue to freeze your membership til you feel safe so at least that option is there. 

Yeah I feel similarly really. I want to get back but I want to know how it is going to work. I feel like it's a bit rushed really and they should give more time for the pubs opening to settle in with no ill effects. I suspect mine might still offer freezing as an option too so I might do that for a bit longer. Another issue for me is that mine has been offering free classes during lockdown virtually so wonder if those will stop. 

[Crazyfool01]

36 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Apparently swimming pools will be kept shut for the time being. The fitness industry have been lobbying the government hard over gyms reopening. 

Like every other industry unfortunately .... is it in anyway based on safety now ... give it that covid secure badge and its good to go now 

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, zeppelin said:

You know this is exactly what they're going to do. And use the "following the science" reasoning. 

I actually do really want to get back to the gym. I've failed at implementing any form of exercise into my routine and have now moved back into my flat so don't even have a garden to get out into. 

But obviously waiting to see how it opens and whether I feel safe doing it (for me and others). I'm with Nuffield who have already said you can continue to freeze your membership til you feel safe so at least that option is there. 

like wise and likewise im with nuffield ... where have they said about freezing membership ? I mean obviously mine is frozen now .. but on a continuing basis ?.... I could have typed your bit as it fits me word for word 

[Crazyfool01]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Do you think it would go down well if I started a thread titled "Don't Go To The Gym"?

 

In all seriousness, the gym is pretty much the highest risk place.  Over time as the prevalence of COVID in the community falls, the absolute risk of going to the gym falls, but if you're in a high risk group (I.e. type 1 diabetes), then I would probably wait a good long while before going back.  Swimming seems to be different, or at least its a bit more controversial, given the chlorine helping kill the virus.  But I'm not aware of much strong data around swimming pools, I think the changing rooms are considered to be a bit risky. 

I think thats going to be what I do ... even if I do go back the chances of me being able to book 3 swims in a week at a set time is going to be minimal ... I think I need to get 3 swims in to make it reasonable value .... without pools open there is no point me returning what so ever ... just need something to replace it in my routine ... thats the issue 

[Quark]

9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

like wise and likewise im with nuffield ... where have they said about freezing membership ? I mean obviously mine is frozen now .. but on a continuing basis ?.... I could have typed your bit as it fits me word for word 

I would assume that as soon as they're given the green light to open by govt, any fee freezes will end. It's then customer choice whether to use it or not.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Quark

[zeppelin]

17 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah I feel similarly really. I want to get back but I want to know how it is going to work. I feel like it's a bit rushed really and they should give more time for the pubs opening to settle in with no ill effects. I suspect mine might still offer freezing as an option too so I might do that for a bit longer. Another issue for me is that mine has been offering free classes during lockdown virtually so wonder if those will stop. 

Yeah it's definitely rushed and I don't know if I'm being selfish if I do go back ASAP. Tbh it could well be so busy given reduced capacity it's not realistic anyway. 

11 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

like wise and likewise im with nuffield ... where have they said about freezing membership ? I mean obviously mine is frozen now .. but on a continuing basis ?.... I could have typed your bit as it fits me word for word 

Haha I imagine we're not the only ones. I briefly managed to run but as soon as I was out of the habit I failed. 

Nuffield wise there's loads of info on this page. It was written in prep for the 4th of July but assume it still stands:

https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/reopening

Edit: specifically

"If you're not ready to come back just yet

Whenever you're ready, we'll be there to make your return as straightforward as possible. In the meantime, you have some options.

Freeze membership. Not ready to restart your membership? Not a problem. To freeze your membership, simply fill out this form."

Edited July 9, 2020 by zeppelin

[FestivalJamie]

I’ve seen a video today of Rishi Sunak serving customers in Wagamama’s yesterday, apparently he “decided against wearing a face mask”. Yet he stood right next to the customers and didn’t bother to social distance either, absolutely outraged and exactly why I’m staying away from restaurants (definitely Wagamamas) now in this country if staff aren’t wearing PPE as it puts the guests at risk, and the staff too.

Oh, not to mention he stuck his fingers in the food too before giving it to the customers, I would be demanding a refund.

 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Quark said:

I would assume that as soon as they're given the green light to open by govt, any fee freezes will end. It's then customer choice whether to use it or not.

yep thats definitely a thought ....  zeppelin has kindly answered above so it looks like ill be ok .... they probably won't want a full return of everyone as if its anything like my gym things would be nightmare like busy 

[Ozanne]

25 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it yet, but daily cases are +642 today, which means the daily increase is higher than this time last week, which means that cases have stopped falling, presumably due to the effects of the unlocking last Saturday.

Don’t you worry I’ll bring the graphs later. 

[zahidf]

Got a sore throat last couple of days (no temperature). Really annoying, making me super paranoid

[Ozanne]

In fact they are out now so here’s the figures for 9th July.