When will this shit end?

[MrBarry465]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ive explained my lack of respect for fake SAGE and only have a go at anyone else when they say something particularly stupid. 

Out of interest though, where does this 'lack of respect' come from? 

They are a scientific advisory group and have experts in the respective fields working here. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a viroligist? 

So just trying to understand what makes you think they don't know what they are doing? 

[steviewevie]

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

Out of interest though, where does this 'lack of respect' come from? 

They are a scientific advisory group and have experts in the respective fields working here. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a viroligist? 

So just trying to understand what makes you think they don't know what they are doing? 

they love lockdown because they love being in the limelight and especially all the love they get on social media...they're basically just making it all up to keep us locked down forever...if it wasn't for them no one would have noticed the indian variant.

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Same positivity ratio as last Thursday as well, just shy of 3%. So no indication that the fall is due to testing delays.

 

It’s just one day for now but perhaps signs that Scotland could be seeing the Bolton effect and that the third wave could be a damp squib. Fingers crossed it continues. 

[zahidf]

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

Out of interest though, where does this 'lack of respect' come from? 

They are a scientific advisory group and have experts in the respective fields working here. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a viroligist? 

So just trying to understand what makes you think they don't know what they are doing? 

As previously stated, they just have a go at PHE (moaning about them not releasing school data ASAP) constantly, and them calling themselves independent SAGE is basically them trying to pass themselves of as SAGE and imply that the real SAGE aren't reliable/independent 

It's a political group, not a scientific group.

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Just about to post this. That is actually ok is it not...

Positivity of 2.8 percent is also a drop from yday too. Hopefully a sign it won't keep going up and up dramatically. Fuck knows tho.

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Out of interest though, where does this 'lack of respect' come from? 

They are a scientific advisory group and have experts in the respective fields working here. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a viroligist? 

So just trying to understand what makes you think they don't know what they are doing? 

Tonnes of indy sage and real sage aren't virologists either or anything close.

[MEGABOWL]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Straight out of Toby Young's arse.

Seriously? You honestly think that is a worthwhile reply? Good grief.

She said it on TV. In the clip above. 

[steviewevie]

If they do delay the roadmap we going to kill this thread anyway, out of protest?

[philipsteak]

46 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

ok so my explanation would be for several reasons ... and im guessing / sumising on a few .... you possibly have a larger proportion vaccinated ? so the virus / variant is struggling more to find a foothold quite as quickly in an area with lower population density too .... the cases might just report when they return to home locations rather than whilst they are on holiday ? 

 

The general population does skew older, so more likely to be vaccinated, but the hospitality and retail workers coming in to contact with tourists will be much  younger. Suppose covid measures are working yo a point but not always followed or enforced. There could be some under reporting from those people as they can't afford to miss shifts? 

Population is normally much less dense but in the honeypot locations it's probably as high as a lot of towns or cities at the moment. And Stu's comment about the great outdoors carries some weightweight, but a lot of people don't really do any of that. So many just turn up with no idea what to do and just sort of mill about. 

I want expecting massive figures, just higher than they are

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Just about to post this. That is actually ok is it not...

Positivity of 2.8 percent is also a drop from yday too. Hopefully a sign it won't keep going up and up dramatically. Fuck knows tho.

Probably not worth looking too much into one days figures, but a reduction would be welcome at the moment.

[jimmillen]

19 minutes ago, Avalon_Fields said:

SAGE scientists. I love them. I hang on their every word. Professor Susan Mitchie says:

Vaccines are a really important part of the pandemic control but it is only one part. Test, trace and isolate system, border controls are really essential and the third thing is people's behaviour. That is the behaviour of social distancing, of when you're indoors, making sure there's good ventilation or if there's not, wearing face masks and hand and surface hygiene. We'll need to keep these going in the long term and that will be good not only for Covid but also to reduce other diseases.

 

Asked to clarify just she meant by 'long term' Michie paused, laughed and replied: 'I think forever to some extent because this isn't going to be the last pandemic

If a few very minor changes allowed us to return to 99% of a normal life in the long term, and helped to protect against future pandemics, would that be a bad thing?

I don't know, got mixed feelings about it myself, but I could totally accept more permanent mask wearing on public transport, increased WFH where possible etc.

The tricky part is social distancing, there's so much that just doesn't work distanced - gigs and hospitality in particular.

Maybe there's a compromise where distancing is encouraged where it is possible - for example in an office environment - whilst it's accepted it's just not possible elsewhere.

Whilst I totally understand the desire to get back to normal ASAP, it seems to me that adopting a few measures to better protect overall societal health isn't totally crazy. I guess everyone's threshold for these measures is different though.

Sorry, that's got a bit away from the original SAGE-bashing point.

ETA: I have no idea about Prof. Michie's background or political affiliations so just addressing her comments as they've been quoted. It's hard enough keeping track of the arguments about what people actually have said without also getting into their potential hidden motivations... 

Edited June 10, 2021 by jimmillen

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

Seriously? You honestly think that is a worthwhile reply? Good grief.

She said it on TV. In the clip above. 

it's the whole but she's a communist thing.

 

[st dan]

The ‘Failures of State’ book really is a fantastic read for those interested in the origins of Covid, and how the government have responded - which i assume is all of us on here. Would say it is an essential read. 

After reading it, it is impossible for me to think it was anything other than an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab, especially with the additional details in provides into years prior (no spoilers). 

Edited June 10, 2021 by st dan

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

If a few very minor changes allowed us to return to 99% of a normal life in the long term, and helped to protect against future pandemics, would that be a bad thing?

I don't know, got mixed feelings about it myself, but I could totally accept more permanent mask wearing on public transport, increased WFH where possible etc.

The tricky part is social distancing, there's so much that just doesn't work distanced - gigs and hospitality in particular.

Maybe there's a compromise where distancing is encouraged where it is possible - for example in an office environment - whilst it's accepted it's just not possible elsewhere.

Whilst I totally understand the desire to get back to normal ASAP, it seems to me that adopting a few measures to better protect overall societal health isn't totally crazy. I guess everyone's threshold for these measures is different though.

Sorry, that's got a bit away from the original SAGE-bashing point. 

I don’t think you can claim it’s “99% of a normal life” with the measures you have proposed.

 

Furthest I can see it going is more stringent hand washing and ventilation will stay along with an encouragement for people to stay at home if they are sick (and if you really can’t, then stick a face mask on)

 

Working from home at least 50% of the time is here to stay, but not as a pandemic precaution. Frankly it was going to happen anyway and the pandemic just pushed us 10 years forward. 

[JoeyT]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

It'll be a false dawn I'm sure.

Tomorrow will probably be 1k+. Sigh.

[efcfanwirral]

6 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

If a few very minor changes allowed us to return to 99% of a normal life in the long term, and helped to protect against future pandemics, would that be a bad thing?

I don't know, got mixed feelings about it myself, but I could totally accept more permanent mask wearing on public transport, increased WFH where possible etc.

The tricky part is social distancing, there's so much that just doesn't work distanced - gigs and hospitality in particular.

Maybe there's a compromise where distancing is encouraged where it is possible - for example in an office environment - whilst it's accepted it's just not possible elsewhere.

Whilst I totally understand the desire to get back to normal ASAP, it seems to me that adopting a few measures to better protect overall societal health isn't totally crazy. I guess everyone's threshold for these measures is different though.

Sorry, that's got a bit away from the original SAGE-bashing point.

ETA: I have no idea about Prof. Michie's background or political affiliations so just addressing her comments as they've been quoted. It's hard enough keeping track of the arguments about what people actually have said without also getting into their potential hidden motivations... 

Testing could bring back all events tomorrow, they're just too scared how it'd look 

But that brings something back and makes another group happy  

It's the hospitality industry that's the tricky one 

Edited June 10, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I don’t think you can claim it’s “99% of a normal life” with the measures you have proposed.

 

Furthest I can see it going is more stringent hand washing and ventilation will stay along with an encouragement for people to stay at home if they are sick (and if you really can’t, then stick a face mask on)

 

Working from home at least 50% of the time is here to stay, but not as a pandemic precaution. Frankly it was going to happen anyway and the pandemic just pushed us 10 years forward. 

If mask wearing becomes a societal norm and not say an 'eforced rule'..... are you going to make a big deal of it?

Societys tolerance for risk has changed and much like in large parts of Asia, mask wearing has been the norm for a while so it was always going to happen here. 

As a society/species we should be looking to evolve our behaviour over time and I think there might be something to be said for this pandemic that it has potentially brought forward things like 'mask wearing' as acceptable methods of protecting ones self and others. 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by MrBarry465

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, st dan said:

The ‘Failures of State’ book really is a fantastic read for those interested in the origins of Covid, and how the government have responded - which j assume is all of us on here. Would say it is an essential read. 

After reading it, it is impossible for me to think it was anything other than an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab, especially with the additional details in provides into years prior (no spoilers). 

I might have to read this book...

[MEGABOWL]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's the whole but she's a communist thing.

 

She is. And it’s relevant. Nothing to do with Toby Young.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

If a few very minor changes allowed us to return to 99% of a normal life in the long term, and helped to protect against future pandemics, would that be a bad thing?

I don't know, got mixed feelings about it myself, but I could totally accept more permanent mask wearing on public transport, increased WFH where possible etc.

The tricky part is social distancing, there's so much that just doesn't work distanced - gigs and hospitality in particular.

Maybe there's a compromise where distancing is encouraged where it is possible - for example in an office environment - whilst it's accepted it's just not possible elsewhere.

Whilst I totally understand the desire to get back to normal ASAP, it seems to me that adopting a few measures to better protect overall societal health isn't totally crazy. I guess everyone's threshold for these measures is different though.

Sorry, that's got a bit away from the original SAGE-bashing point.

ETA: I have no idea about Prof. Michie's background or political affiliations so just addressing her comments as they've been quoted. It's hard enough keeping track of the arguments about what people actually have said without also getting into their potential hidden motivations... 

Im fine with mask wearing in some settings like public transport, and whatever people want to be comfortable with. But that's different to it being a rule. 

social distancing in a formal way is completely unacceptable though and need to be in the bin asap

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, st dan said:

The ‘Failures of State’ book really is a fantastic read for those interested in the origins of Covid, and how the government have responded - which j assume is all of us on here. Would say it is an essential read. 

After reading it, it is impossible for me to think it was anything other than an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab, especially with the additional details in provides into years prior (no spoilers). 

The whole Wuhan lab thing is possinle, but there is still no actual evidence. But China have blocked some of the evidence investigators need, right? But they also cleared the suspected wet market of any evidence too. It is very possible we'll never actually know the source.

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

social distancing in a formal way is completely unacceptable though and need to be in the bin asap

Thats totally subjective fyi. 

[jimmillen]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I don’t think you can claim it’s “99% of a normal life” with the measures you have proposed.

 

Furthest I can see it going is more stringent hand washing and ventilation will stay along with an encouragement for people to stay at home if they are sick (and if you really can’t, then stick a face mask on)

 

Working from home at least 50% of the time is here to stay, but not as a pandemic precaution. Frankly it was going to happen anyway and the pandemic just pushed us 10 years forward. 

That's sort of what I mean really - let's keep the changes that were happening anyway and that COVID has accelerated, where it makes sense to do so. 

The main thing I can see changing just on a societal acceptance point of view is being ill in public places. How many times pre-COVID did we share train carriages, or offices, or pubs, with somebody coughing & sneezing their head off - often not bothering to even cover their mouth or wash their hands? If in future they either stay at home, or wear a mask & practice better hygiene then that can surely only be a good thing.

[andyrhodes24]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Testing could bring back all events tomorrow, they're just too scared how it'd look 

But that brings something back and makes another group happy  

It's the hospitality industry that's the tricky one 

It's so easily done if they want mass events to happen through testing. The pilot events (so far) have shown that the number of cases recorded in the post-event PCR tests are proportionate to what the England is/was at the time seeing in general.

It all comes down to the backlash the Tories will get from the anti-vaxx lot when they see a photo of 80,000 non-socially distanced teenagers at Bramham Park splashed on the front page of the Daily Mail when they're not allowed in the shop without a mask

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

Thats totally subjective fyi. 

Why are you on a festival forum then?