When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

We shall see, I'm just not ready to start getting on board with the happy clappers and hopium addicts 😛

It's healthy to have a level of scepticism but I think in this instance I don;'t think it'll be as bad as you describe.

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Post vaccinations? No social contract for that.

Its more that we have calibrate to recognise its endemic and will have to have booster shots

“These findings recalibrate thinking about how to approach the pandemic virus and shift the focus from the goal of herd immunity against transmission to the protection of all at-risk individuals in the population against severe disease,” he said.

Prof Andrew Pollard, chief investigator on the Oxford vaccine trial, emphasised the value of the vaccines in reducing the burden on health systems.

“This study confirms that the pandemic coronavirus will find ways to continue to spread in vaccinated populations, as expected, but, taken with the promising results from other studies in South Africa using a similar viral vector, vaccines may continue to ease the toll on health care systems by preventing severe disease,” he said.

And what will we be doing in the meantime when waiting for these yearly boosters? It definitely won't be things like festivals...

2 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

You joking.....?

Had the government let the public health experts make the fucking decisions when it was needed, we would be nowhere near the shit heap we are in. 

I prefer medical experts and scientists to make decisions where those aspects are in question thanks. This sort of attitude is why we will never properly tackle climate change/biodiversity loss. 

Climate change is the main reason this should be the "new normal" (and maybe an argument to go much further). It'll make life shit in comparison to how it used to be, but 20-30 years time will be infinitely shitter. I don't want to make the sacrifice but I'm aware that attitude is messing the world up for the future and I know it's selfish (won't be having kids so that feeds into it for me), but many don't even realise what's coming. 

Such a strange contradiction that we need to let go of our old lives for future generations (and for some of us our own futures too) but its way beyond human capability to actually do it. Climate change is covid x1000000

Just now, MrBarry465 said:

I reckon things will go tits up pretty quickly in the coming days over the South African variant, it's clear that there is a lot of concern around the oxford vaccines effectivness. The fact they are now saying they will have a new version of the vaccine ready to roll out in September says it all. 

My thoughts exactly- I don't think we'll be fully opening up until everyone already vaccinated has had this new one, and I'm not convinced us younger people are even going to get a vaccine until these new ones are ready, and the vulnerable have had their boosters. All the information is there to show where we're heading. Just difficult to accept and take in, and lots of government deception and pain to get there 

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Ozanne said:

It's healthy to have a level of scepticism but I think in this instance I don;'t think it'll be as bad as you describe.

I just think it's good to be realistic about things, do think there is a level of naivety about this whole situation which has come from some people. 

[MrBarry465]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Climate change is the main reason this should be the "new normal" (and maybe an argument to go much further). It'll make life shit in comparison to how it used to be, but 20-30 years time will be infinitely shitter. I don't want to make the sacrifice but I'm aware that attitude is messing the world up for the future and I know it's selfish (won't be having kids so that feeds into it for me), but many don't even realise what's coming. 

Such a strange contradiction that we need to let go of our old lives for future generations (and for some of us our own futures too) but its way beyond human capability to actually do it. Climate change is covid x1000000

 

100% mate, I've been saying this since the pandemic started. People are desparetley clammering to return to 'the old normal' but at the end of the day, we need to be making significant adjustments to our lives to combat the really critical problem this species is facing. 

My view has always been, if people think this last 18 months has been bad - they ain't seen nothing yet. We are looking at massive famine, refugee and humanitarian crisis in the coming decades, if we do not sort this stuff out. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by MrBarry465

[PM87]

I just read that SA will continue to use Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer in the meantime. I'm catching up on the thread so apologies if this has been covered but have tests proved both these vaccines are effective against the variant? Or is it a case of the Ox/Az isn't as effective and they're waiting to see about Pfizer and J&J?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, PM87 said:

I just read that SA will continue to use Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer in the meantime. I'm catching up on the thread so apologies if this has been covered but have tests proved both these vaccines are effective against the variant? Or is it a case of the Ox/Az isn't as effective and they're waiting to see about Pfizer and J&J?

Isn't it just saying the Ox/Az vaccine isnt as effective at stopping mild disease. Surely it's still a good thing it's stopping the more severe disease. 

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, PM87 said:

I just read that SA will continue to use Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer in the meantime. I'm catching up on the thread so apologies if this has been covered but have tests proved both these vaccines are effective against the variant? Or is it a case of the Ox/Az isn't as effective and they're waiting to see about Pfizer and J&J?

The second option I think- no studies yet. That's the one thing that could save us, if others prove to be better

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

100% mate, I've been saying this since the pandemic started. People are desparetley clammering to return to 'the old normal' but at the end of the day, we need to be making significant adjustments to our lives to combat the really critical problem this species is facing. 

My view has always been, if people think this last 18 months has been bad - they ain't seen nothing yet. We are looking at massive famine, refugee and humanitarian crisis in the coming decades, if we do not sort this stuff out. 

Only way to deal with it is worldwide authoritarianism and essentially communism. Not advocating it but people would need to be forced into complying. Kind of like what we're seeing now, but it won't actually make a difference with China etc increasing their pollution 

[MrBarry465]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Only way to deal with it is worldwide authoritarianism and essentially communism. Not advocating it but people would need to be forced into complying. Kind of like what we're seeing now, but it won't actually make a difference with China etc increasing their pollution 

Hopefully companies make the changes for us and we have no other choice but to comply, but I don't hold hope.

It's not just climate change as well, biodiversity is totally fucked. Our kids are going to grow up with very little fauna around them.

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Only way to deal with it is worldwide authoritarianism and essentially communism. Not advocating it but people would need to be forced into complying. Kind of like what we're seeing now, but it won't actually make a difference with China etc increasing their pollution 

[PM87]

13 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The second option I think- no studies yet. That's the one thing that could save us, if others prove to be better

And this is 'normal' with viruses, right? The flu vaccine has to be adapted because it mutates etc. I mean, it's obviously not ideal but I think it's a positive that studies are able to identify whether vaccines are effective against particular strains and then if not, they're adapted as necessary.

I guess we just have to hope that the SA variant isn't as widespread here and that measures are looked at if this is a real concern. I'm seeing headlines pop up online that I'm side eyeing and I've had to stop doom scrolling on twitter. Considering there are already PR issues with the Oxford vaccine and the lack of over 65s data, I do wish certain publications would be mindful with their click bait headlines - a vaccine needing to be modified due to a mutation in a virus isn't unusual (at least that's my understanding but I'm no scientist). Obviously, it's not a great start to SA's vaccine roll out if certain vaccines aren't as efficient against the dominant strain they're dealing with. Fingers crossed for the other two vaccines.  

13 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Isn't it just saying the Ox/Az vaccine isnt as effective at stopping mild disease. Surely it's still a good thing it's stopping the more severe disease. 

Yeah, this is what is confusing me. Because this is what the flu vaccine does....

Edited February 7, 2021 by PM87

[SwedgeAntilles]

[PM87]

Living through a pandemic is so exhausting. Sometimes I wonder if we're better or worse off having all this information at our finger tips and a 24/7 news cycle. I wonder if this pandemic had happened 20 years ago, before social media was king and before 24 hour news channels, if the mental health of the nation would be as fragile. Would ignorance be bliss? Sometimes I think so. (Obviously I'm not saying there aren't huge positives to the wealth of knowledge that is at our finger tips because of social media etc. and the ease with which important info is communicated to us. And I don't want to live in a world where we bury our heads in the sand). But I don't know about everyone else, in the last few months I have really noticed a deterioration in how myself, my friends, and my family are coping with everything. Much of this could be attributed to lockdown 3.0 being in the depths of winter, and the fact we had certain expectations for when the clock struck 12 on NYE. But I do think a lot of it is down to our inability to switch off from Covid. That and the goal posts constantly moving, which I suppose is the sad reality of a pandemic.

[Ryan1984]

 This morning it was all positive with the vaccine rollout and Zahawi on Andrew Marr feeling confident. Now, it seems like the SA variant is a huge concern that might shut down the world?

Weekends aren’t fun anymore, are they?

[hodgey123]

Doom on this thread today has been unbelievable. It appears some people are very happy for others’ lives to be changed and not back to ‘normal’ indefinitely. The news about the SA variant isn’t perfect but it is overlooking the absolute key aim of the vaccine response - reducing severe cases/hospitalisations/death, which it appears it still does (notwithstanding the fact Oxford also said that a vaccine targeting this variant will be available in autumn). If anyone thinks we will be in lockdown once everyone has been vaccinated to protect against moderate illness (however that was defined in this study!) is mad. 

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Doom on this thread today has been unbelievable. It appears some people are very happy for others’ lives to be changed and not back to ‘normal’ indefinitely. The news about the SA variant isn’t perfect but it is overlooking the absolute key aim of the vaccine response - reducing severe cases/hospitalisations/death, which it appears it still does (notwithstanding the fact Oxford also said that a vaccine targeting this variant will be available in autumn). If anyone thinks we will be in lockdown once everyone has been vaccinated to protect against moderate illness (however that was defined in this study!) is mad. 

Nobody is saying we will be in lockdown once everyone has been vaccinated, or even while we are being vaccinated

But the few people on here who think it will be like one massive orgy and festivals everywhere from May also need a reality check. The population do need to get vaccinated and if that takes until August and September and we have restrictions in place until then, then most people with a brain and some understanding of the situation should be able to accept that.

This year has always been a transitional year and that will prove to be the case.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by MrBarry465

[charlierc]

7 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

 This morning it was all positive with the vaccine rollout and Zahawi on Andrew Marr feeling confident. Now, it seems like the SA variant is a huge concern that might shut down the world?

Weekends aren’t fun anymore, are they?

Took a few wild turns over the course of the day huh.

[MrBarry465]

10 minutes ago, PM87 said:

Living through a pandemic is so exhausting. Sometimes I wonder if we're better or worse off having all this information at our finger tips and a 24/7 news cycle. I wonder if this pandemic had happened 20 years ago, before social media was king and before 24 hour news channels, if the mental health of the nation would be as fragile. Would ignorance be bliss? Sometimes I think so. (Obviously I'm not saying there aren't huge positives to the wealth of knowledge that is at our finger tips because of social media etc. and the ease with which important info is communicated to us. And I don't want to live in a world where we bury our heads in the sand). But I don't know about everyone else, in the last few months I have really noticed a deterioration in how myself, my friends, and my family are coping with everything. Much of this could be attributed to lockdown 3.0 being in the depths of winter, and the fact we had certain expectations for when the clock struck 12 on NYE. But I do think a lot of it is down to our inability to switch off from Covid. That and the goal posts constantly moving, which I suppose is the sad reality of a pandemic.

My advise would be to not put too much expectation on this year and just see how it pans out. Overall we have a lot to be positive about, but the population doesn't get vaccinated overnight. 

[hodgey123]

2 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Nobody is saying we will be in lockdown once everyone has been vaccinated, or even while we are being vaccinated

But the few people on here who think it will be like one massive orgy and festivals everywhere from May also need a reality check. The population do need to get vaccinated and if that takes until August and September and we have restrictions in place until then, then most people with a brain and some understanding of the situation should be able to accept that.

This year has always been a transitional year and that will prove to be the case.

 

Think there are two extremes but equally I can’t recall anyone in this thread suggesting orgies and festivals from May. If anything we all realise that it’s not back to normal as the main reason we are on this very forum has been cancelled already this year! From what I have seen, people have been cautiously optimistic restrictions will be loosened - slowly - from March after schools go back. That’s it? And then it gets obliterated from others saying ‘life has changed forever’ etc. 

[JoeyT]

2 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Nobody is saying we will be in lockdown until everyon has been vaccinated. But the few people on here who think it will be like one massive orgy and festivals everywhere from May also need a reality check. This year has always been a transitional year and that will prove to be the case.

 

One thing for certain if it is one massive orgy you ain’t coming to mine.

You’ve taken negative thinking to a new level today. Jesus wept.

[Toilet Duck]

49 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

We shall see, I'm just not ready to start getting on board with the happy clappers and hopium addicts 😛

Keen to see how things pan out, I maintain that we aren't out of this mess for a while yet. 

I don’t think it’s happy clapper/hopium addict behaviour to think we are on the way out the other side to be honest. Pretty much everyone in my Medical  School is of the same opinion (and some of them sit on our version of SAGE). It’s right we keep an eye on variants and update vaccines accordingly, but it’s not unmanageable. In fact, what we are now facing into was pretty much what we were hoping for before any of the vaccines were even approved (protection from severe disease, hospitalisation and death). Eradication through sterilising immunity via vaccination was always a long shot. It’s here to stay, but we won’t be shutting the world down to prevent mild to moderate disease (unless even mild disease in vaccinated individuals leads to massive amounts of “long Covid”, but there’s no descriptions of it at all in folk who tested positive on any of the trials, and some of them caught the virus back in the summer...it may come, but if it was a strong signal, I’d expect some reports of it by now). I know it doesn’t feel like it sometimes, but this will end!

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, hodgey123 said:

Think there are two extremes but equally I can’t recall anyone in this thread suggesting orgies and festivals from May. If anything we all realise that it’s not back to normal as the main reason we are on this very forum has been cancelled already this year! From what I have seen, people have been cautiously optimistic restrictions will be loosened - slowly - from March after schools go back. That’s it? And then it gets obliterated from others saying ‘life has changed forever’ etc. 

ffs where have my march orgies gone ? 🙂 

[charlierc]

It's interesting Matt Hancock cited the movie Contagion the other day as an inspiration because that film ends with the discovery of the vaccine and leaves the roll out as a kind of "Everyone lived happily ever after" conclusion. Maybe we underestimated the logistical complexities of the next step of this thing.

[PM87]

1 minute ago, MrBarry465 said:

My advise would be to not put too much expectation on this year and just see how it pans out. Overall we have a lot to be positive about, but the population doesn't get vaccinated overnight. 

Tbh, my main expectation for this year is that it will be better than the last. In 6 weeks time it will be 1 whole year since I walked out the door of the theatre that I work at and honestly, that blows my mind. I'm also thankful that we even have vaccines because that is a feat in itself. It very easily could have gone the other way. I do hope things look brighter come late spring / early summer.

[PM87]

3 minutes ago, charlierc said:

It's interesting Matt Hancock cited the movie Contagion the other day as an inspiration because that film ends with the discovery of the vaccine and leaves the roll out as a kind of "Everyone lived happily ever after" conclusion. Maybe we underestimated the logistical complexities of the next step of this thing.

Netflix REALLY want me to watch Contagion. Every time I log in they shove it down my throat as a 'familiar favourite.' I'm not sure it's the film for me right now lol