When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

2/3 weeks lag between restrictions imposed and infection rates coming down? Wouldn't it be quicker than that? Not sure what incubation period is.
Also, doesn't new variant plus schools open plus christmas mean tier4 maybe not enough?

Well probably not. But then we are probably screwed until vaccines get mass roll out anyway.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Well probably not. But then we are probably screwed until vaccines get mass roll out anyway.

I mean we may see a drop or levelling off with the schools closed for a few weeks...depends on how many stuck to the rules over christmas I guess.

[Fuzzy Afro]

I think we’ve already seen a slowing in the growth. 

[Chapple12345]

14 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

When do we think we might see some of the impacts of tier 4 ? At least in infection numbers .... and if it is strong enough to get a drop ? 

Tier 4 is essentially the November restrictions so they should hopefully have an effect, it will be 2 weeks tomorrow for London so expect/hope for a drop off in the next week or so

[Guest]

We are seeing 40k cases a day and we aren’t going to see the effect of Christmas for a week. We are going through the Christmas shopping period from the beginning of December which coincided with the relaxing of lockdown. We really needed cases to be lower than 20k before Christmas at least. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

16 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Why is that?

Genuine question from someone who doesn't really understand these things but has to use about 10 different logins to do my pretty unimportant job. Could be more. I know it's been mentioned by my employers before, but never prioritised. 

In its most simple form not all systems talk to active directory. 

Arguably you also don't want one password to give you access to everything your entitled to from a security perspective. 

Always makes me laugh all these folk who can't remember passwords at work but know all their social media / personal passwords!

As said previously not a simple (if even possible) task to get all systems using a single sign on. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Chapple12345 said:

Tier 4 is essentially the November restrictions so they should hopefully have an effect, it will be 2 weeks tomorrow for London so expect/hope for a drop off in the next week or so

Fingers crossed ... it’s absolutely essential that starts happening in London desperately by the looks of things ... and the SE might be a few days behind if they are strong enough 

[Guest]

We should be starting to see the impact of tier 4 in London by the weekend. But the initial numbers still showing a double every 13 days which isn’t good at all. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

33 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It is but it’s pathetic. They can’t wait another day to do something, they need to act as if there isn’t a vaccine not be waiting around whilst hospitals fill up even more. Even if it is approved today it’s not going to make a difference to the current situation. 

One single day makes near as naff all difference - it's the fact it's more than a single day. I found it odd we didn't enter a harsh two week lockdown on boxing day to stop the spread of the expected Xmas mixing increase. 

We will wait till a hospital has to start the unenviable task of triaging who to treat and who not to treat. That's the situation the government were scared (rightly so) of in spring and have sleep walked into now. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

45 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Unfortunately vast swathes of the country are.

I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

One single day makes near as naff all difference - it's the fact it's more than a single day. I found it odd we didn't enter a harsh two week lockdown on boxing day to stop the spread of the expected Xmas mixing increase. 

We will wait till a hospital has to start the unenviable task of triaging who to treat and who not to treat. That's the situation the government were scared (rightly so) of in spring and have sleep walked into now. 

Yes they have acted too late but when the situation is like it is 1 day can make a big difference.

[stuartbert two hats]

41 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Why is that?

Genuine question from someone who doesn't really understand these things but has to use about 10 different logins to do my pretty unimportant job. Could be more. I know it's been mentioned by my employers before, but never prioritised. 

Lots of different software written in different technologies at different times by different people covering lots of different kinds of user (some external to the NHS).

There have been attempts to solve this problem for decades, and it's likely they will continue for many, many years to come.

The NHS is just so big.

[Avalon_Fields]

51 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Why is that?

Genuine question from someone who doesn't really understand these things but has to use about 10 different logins to do my pretty unimportant job. Could be more. I know it's been mentioned by my employers before, but never prioritised. 

Tony Blair tried to change it all in the early 2000's with a unified NHS IT system, spend £12 billion and it completely failed.

[DeanoL]

20 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Seriously though, what a fucking waste of months of restrictions to keep retail open when the numbers were clearly going to start heading upwards again. What a waste.

While I agree it shouldn’t have happened, giving retail December is like giving hospitality August. It’s a massive boost because of spending g patterns- lots of retail stores do 50% of their business or more in December. 
We really should have had a harsher lockdown Sept-Nov to allow retail to open in December if we wanted to maximise both economic benefits and keep deaths down.

2 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

What a giant waste of cash those nightingales are if they don’t have the staff to use them. I wonder if they could move routine procedures over to the nightingales (using specialists etc) and then expand the critical care capacity of normal hospitals. 

Were they not designed as mass ventilation units, basically? Which could therefore operate out of what were effectively warehouses, as long as they had the ventilators? But since then treatment programmes have changed and there’s much less demand for ventilators?

33 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

 

Always makes me laugh all these folk who can't remember passwords at work but know all their social media / personal passwords!

Usually because social media doesn’t make you change your password every 30 or 45 days like most work polices do!

[zero000]

Getting everything to be electronic in the NHS would be a good start, let alone a single use password. There are some places that still use paper records in 2020. It’s absurd. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by zero000

[Mr.Tease]

15 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Getting everything to be electronic in the NHS would be a good start. There are some places that still use paper records in 2020. It’s absurd. 

It's joke- I used to work for the NHS a few years ago, but it was one of the worst working environments I've been in- constant emphasis on targets, pressure to compromise your levels of care and fiddle stats and waiting lists, wanting more and more paper/electronic work on top of a higher clinical case load, greater staff monitoring, monthly meetings to pressure you more. S*** buildings to work in, in dire need of repair (though some fancy new ones- it's real pot luck).

Each morning, we'd go in and people would have to go about scavenging for bits of computer, so you'd have a full working set (switching broken keyboards or mice or monitors for working ones). Treated like minions from the management on high, with emailed edicts stating they had noticed staff wearing hoodies and coats to work, and reminding us these are not part of the dress code and to desist or face the consequences (I kid you not!). Never worked somewhere with so much long term sickness and staff off from stress related stuff- for a 2 week stretch, I was the only worker in my field not off sick!

There's always talk about funding regarding the NHS, but for me a huge issue is the working culture- it's toxic, yes it's largely due to underfunding, but there's also been a call-centre like ruthlessness brought in that's just pushing staff out of working there and causing them to get ill. I think there are some much more pleasant trusts to work in, but a lot of them are really grim (or at least the ones I've worked in), with atrocious management.

People always say how important the NHS is, and how much they appreciate the work the staff do, etc, but it would be much better if they held back the clapping, and instead stopped voting for governments that routinely shaft it and the staff who work there.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Mr.Tease

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 hours ago, WestCountryGirl said:

That's my question too.

The Oxford approval would be lovely, but will only give rise to more nonsense in the press about how this will all be sorted by Spring (which the scum have gone with today anyway).

More vital, right now, today, is for the Prime Minister to say something - anything - about the dire situation the NHS is in, and what the government are planning to do about the fact that the current tiers/restrictions are doing fuck all.

Completely agree. I assume he's on holiday still. 

Seeing some of the stuff from doctors and nurses in the last 24 hours has been really grim. Feel like we are heading towards people's worst predictions for this back in spring and most people don't care any more.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, Rex2 said:

As someone who works in the NHS and ICU once a month I despise any suggestions that Covid isn't real and the entire NHS has been on a jolly for the previous 9 months. The damage covid does to previously healthy people is scary. What they were training us to do in April was far outside our scope of practice and also scary. Covid numbers in my hospital have surpassed the peak in April. Critical care is full and patients are now in temporary recovery areas. Several wards have shut down with covid meaning overall capacity is reduced. The only reason people haven't died on 1hospital floors up to this point is because of lock downs. In a way I wish everyone could spend just an hour on ICU. The whole thing would be taken much more seriously 

Thank you for everything you are doing. It sounds like a nightmare.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

When do we think we might see some of the impacts of tier 4 ? At least in infection numbers .... and if it is strong enough to get a drop ? 

Tier 4 has existed since the 19th hasn't it? So this weekend I would think we would see an impact. That said it's hard to predict because of Christmas and the schools being off. And the new strain.

[steviewevie]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

It's joke- I used to work for the NHS a few years ago, but it was one of the worst working environments I've been in- constant emphasis on targets, pressure to compromise your levels of care and fiddle stats and waiting lists, wanting more and more paper/electronic work on top of a higher clinical case load, greater staff monitoring, monthly meetings to pressure you more. S*** buildings to work in, in dire need of repair (though some fancy new ones- it's real pot luck).

Each morning, we'd go in and people would have to go about scavenging for bits of computer, so you'd have a full working set (switching broken keyboards or mice or monitors for working ones). Treated like minions from the management on high, with emailed edicts stating they had noticed staff wearing hoodies and coats to work, and reminding us these are not part of the dress code and to desist or face the consequences (I kid you not!). Never worked somewhere with so much long term sickness and staff off from stress related stuff- for a 2 week stretch, I was the only worker in my field not off sick!

There's always talk about funding regarding the NHS, but for me a huge issue is the working culture- it's toxic, yes it's largely due to underfunding, but there's also been a call-centre like ruthlessness brought in that's just pushing staff out of working there and causing them to get ill. I think there are some much more pleasant trusts to work in, but a lot of them are really grim (or at least the ones I've worked in), with atrocious management.

People always say how important the NHS is, and how much they appreciate the work the staff do, etc, but it would be much better if they held back the clapping, and instead stopped voting for governments that routinely shaft it and the staff who work there.

I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people just leave the NHS after the year they've had on top of everything else...

Edited December 29, 2020 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

 

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people just leave the NHS after the year they've had on top of everything else...

it certainly seems like the perfect storm for stress and it doesnt help that many wait to be vaccinated still .... I would think that the importance of lowering the sickness due to covid amongst NHS staff would be highest priority .... considering the importance of these people delivering vaccines too .... 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Lots of different software written in different technologies at different times by different people covering lots of different kinds of user (some external to the NHS).

There have been attempts to solve this problem for decades, and it's likely they will continue for many, many years to come.

The NHS is just so big.

That’s what she said. 

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Really good points here- I think many of the “back to normal” brigade would change their mind if they actually saw what COVID did to you.

[rivalschools.price]

Excuse my ignorance on this as the answer is probably to do with politics and I do my best to keep away from the political squabbling and point scoring but why does everyone say ‘instead of clapping we should do this’ or ‘instead of clapping we should have done that’?

Surely we don’t have to choose one or the other?

We can clap for the workers to show our appreciation for them but still want them to have better working conditions. We can clap for the staff to thank them and still want them to have a pay rise. We can clap for the NHS but still want them to have more funding.

Who decided it must be one or the other? Who decided that anyone who claps doesn’t want things to improve for the NHS?