When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

45 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Have they decided what the dosage of the Oxford vaccine will be yet? Are they going to go for the 2 full doses or risk the 1/2 plus full one (which might be more effective but has a smaller sample size)?

Nope no news on that yet

[squirrelarmy]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

big difference is shops open for boxing day sales...

People can get bargains online. 
 

I’ve never understood the need to go outside and shop when you’re supposed to be nursing an evil xmas day hangover. 

[zahidf]

Are we talking about what is medically advisable or what is politically advisable?

I simply don't think that when most of the vulnerable people are vaccinated, that deaths and hospitalisations will be at enough of a level politically for restrictions to stay to the same degree. ( and this isnt just a UK thing: its a western country thing)

I also think the current rate of vaccinations is pretty good overall so far, and if/when oxford is approved, we will be looking at a massive ramp up

[xxialac]

I don't think there's anyone on here who is arguing that some restrictions will be removed once most of the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Nor that all restrictions won't be removed for a long, long time. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by xxialac

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Are we talking about what is medically advisable or what is politically advisable?

I simply don't think that when most of the vulnerable people are vaccinated, that deaths and hospitalisations will be at enough of a level politically for restrictions to stay to the same degree. ( and this isnt just a UK thing: its a western country thing)

I also think the current rate of vaccinations is pretty good overall so far, and if/when oxford is approved, we will be looking at a massive ramp up

No one has said restrictions will stay to the same degree.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Ozanne

[Copperface]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

"a very slow and graduated/flexible lifting/imposition until we hit the 65-70% mark"

 

Not sure about that. There's been a wide gap for outdoor to indoor rules all the way thru, because the risks have been recognised as hugely different. Plus they're already on the path of opening up outdoor events.

First bit still stands. Measures of some kind, whether more or less restrictive, will be in place until they feel they have some control over the spread. The only argument is how severe they will be.

Mass gatherings as a generic grouping will still be subject to measures and restrictions whether indoor or outdoor for a long tome yet. In that I include social distancing as well, which in effect precludes many events straight off.

 

[FestivalJamie]

Robert Jenrick now suggesting on sky news that more areas could go to tier 4 before Christmas.

Honestly I’m on my last straw with this government. To advertise the quite frankly ridiculous 5 day mixing of bubbles before the soul crushing u turn. They should have never advertised anything in the first place and made decisions based on the science a week before! 

If they do another u turn today and put West Midlands to tier 4 and ban their Christmas I imagine it will be the last straw for a lot of people- a lot of people are getting fed up and I can see why when the government has such bad management over this.

Until they start to be upfront and honest with us and stop playing games we are never going to get out of this hell hole situation. And the fact priti Patel says we are “ahead of the curve” is quite frankly a joke.

 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, FestivalJamie said:

Robert Jenrick now suggesting on sky news that more areas could go to tier 4 before Christmas.

Don't worry he'll do 4 U-turns before the morning is out and then 7 after lunch.

[zahidf]

 

[FestivalJamie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

 

I understand this but surely the MHRA approved procedure is 2 doses? I’d rather we just followed the scientific approved procedure of vaccine rollout rather than changing it to try and get ahead.

Slow and steady wins the race is an important phrase here.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, Copperface said:

First bit still stands. Measures of some kind, whether more or less restrictive, will be in place until they feel they have some control over the spread. The only argument is how severe they will be.

that's not what you said that I disagreed with. 

You said "very slow". It won't be. It'll be very fast long before "we hit the 65-70% mark".

[Matt42]

Does anyone else worry a bit that they might genuinely keep the events industry closed until they reach a super high vaccination rate? I know it sounds bizarre to suggest but we are very low down the priority ladder for the tories and if the industry goes bust the tories don’t really care.

The logic isn’t there at all but virtually everything seems to be pointing that way at the moment. It feels like the gov will happily watch all music events collapse and not lose any sleep about it.

[zahidf]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Does anyone else worry a bit that they might genuinely keep the events industry closed until they reach a super high vaccination rate? I know it sounds bizarre to suggest but we are very low down the priority ladder for the tories and if the industry goes bust the tories don’t really care.

The logic isn’t there at all but virtually everything seems to be pointing that way at the moment. It feels like the gov will happily watch all music events collapse and not lose any sleep about it.

I dont think they will distinguish events to that extent. Once theatre and operas e.t.c are allowed without social distancing, gigs will be as well

[Gingerfish79]

 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

So Tony Blair had a point... 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Does anyone else worry a bit that they might genuinely keep the events industry closed until they reach a super high vaccination rate? I know it sounds bizarre to suggest but we are very low down the priority ladder for the tories and if the industry goes bust the tories don’t really care.

The logic isn’t there at all but virtually everything seems to be pointing that way at the moment. It feels like the gov will happily watch all music events collapse and not lose any sleep about it.

TBF they don't lose any sleep about child poverty, so there's obviously nothing about wider society that they care about. 

[FestivalJamie]

Just now, xxialac said:

So Tony Blair had a point... 

I worry about this. The tried and tested procedure from Biontech is 2 doses and that’s what has been signed off and approved as the best way of getting people vaccinated.

If they thought oh yeah we only need one dose then they would have put that forward to the MHRA and that would have got approved. I worry if we just go round changing procedures it’s a risky strategy and something could go badly wrong.

[Homer]

59 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

This has already happened. The xenophobic lot on another forum I’m on are blaming the French/saying they’ve always hated us going back to the war etc. Completely clueless.

They're a savage lot over on the Latitude pages.

[Lycra]

3 minutes ago, Copperface said:

First bit still stands. Measures of some kind, whether more or less restrictive, will be in place until they feel they have some control over the spread. The only argument is how severe they will be.

Mass gatherings as a generic grouping will still be subject to measures and restrictions whether indoor or outdoor for a long tome yet. In that I include social distancing as well, which in effect precludes many events straight off.

 

l echo your argument. People are putting too much faith into the unknown and unproven. The situation will improve in 2021 but at a slow (& hopefully sustained pace).

Consider the position right now. Roll out of the PB vaccine has been slow, only 42% of NHS trusts have received the vaccine (reported in the Guardian yesterday) & government have not confirmed any additional deliveries subsequent to the first one. The AZ vaccine has still to be approved. Quick lateral flow tests are being rejected by Public Health due to their inaccuracy. And we have the new covid variant which is infecting younger & older age groups alike and appears faster replicating. It's not a good base to suggest "back to normal after Easter" or even the summer

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, FestivalJamie said:

I worry about this. The tried and tested procedure from Biontech is 2 doses and that’s what has been signed off and approved as the best way of getting people vaccinated.

If they thought oh yeah we only need one dose then they would have put that forward to the MHRA and that would have got approved. I worry if we just go round changing procedures it’s a risky strategy and something could go badly wrong.

The advice from scientists is dynamic and based on evidence at that time e.g. look at how it's changed from the WHO etc over last 12 months.

[Gingerfish79]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

So Tony Blair had a point... 

It wasn’t Tony’s idea, it has been talked about since the first announcements of a vaccine. What has changed is the new variant rapidly spreading and the now stark realisation of what’s about to happen to the economy from 1st January. The pressure to start lifting restrictions and opening up the retail and hospitality sectors is going to be huge.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Lycra said:

l echo your argument. People are putting too much faith into the unknown and unproven. The situation will improve in 2021 but at a slow (& hopefully sustained pace).

Consider the position right now. Roll out of the PB vaccine has been slow, only 42% of NHS trusts have received the vaccine (reported in the Guardian yesterday) & government have not confirmed any additional deliveries subsequent to the first one. The AZ vaccine has still to be approved. Quick lateral flow tests are being rejected by Public Health due to their inaccuracy. And we have the new covid variant which is infecting younger & older age groups alike and appears faster replicating. It's not a good base to suggest "back to normal after Easter" or even the summer

Why have only 42% of Trusts received the vaccine?

If it's down to administration, this is pathetic.

Literally what could be more pressing? Bring in the army, whatever it takes

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Gingerfish79 said:

It wasn’t Tony’s idea, it has been talked about since the first announcements of a vaccine. What has changed is the new variant rapidly spreading and the now stark realisation of what’s about to happen to the economy from 1st January. The pressure to start lifting restrictions and opening up the retail and hospitality sectors is going to be huge.

Not saying it's his idea but he, rightly or wrongly, has a bigger platform to be heard than almost anyone, so it is relevant that he puts this forward.

[FestivalJamie]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The advice from scientists is dynamic and based on evidence at that time e.g. look at how it's changed from the WHO etc over last 12 months.

I understand that but tony Blair is a politician and not a scientist.

A 2 dose procedure is what has been signed off to prevent disease and hopefully transmission. I don’t know anything about vaccines but we don’t know the implications of a 1 dose procedure. What if everyone’s immunity starts to fade after a shorter period of time and we have another mass outbreak? I don’t know the answer to any of these questions, but I’d rather stick to the tried and tested scientific methods.

Ok so the economy takes a beating January February March but at least we know we will have an effective vaccine rollout. So close to being able to have some more of the freedoms we love and saving more lives the last thing I want us to make is one huge mistake which puts us back to square one.

[xxialac]

Deeply troubling. Awful to think about how awful January will be and how it didn't have to be this way.

The initial mess-up I can perhaps forgive but the shambolic decision-making for this new wave means politicians should end up in court IMO.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/named-the-trusts-set-to-have-at-least-a-third-of-beds-filled-by-covid-patients-on-31-dec/7029222.article#.X-MNvPA-mx8.twitter