When will this shit end?

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Thank you! I’ll acknowledge my privilege though, I have a nice flat with my other half, we just moved in together a few weeks back. Got nice food, booze and we can afford to hunker down for a bit and have a great time. I feel for anyone in flatshares. 

To be honest I'm the same here up north. The flatshares would be hard especially if its people you dont know too well. I guess friend groups can make the most of it. 

[Brownie30]

There's a massive difference between those heading off on a festive jolly, bounding between pubs, bars and houses with no regard for the rules and individuals leaving London tonight in a last minute panic now that any safe (and legal till today) plans have been ruled out by the same government who were so excited about the prospect of a 3 day Covid hiatus.

If anyone isn't still blaming the Government for all of this they're buying into the irresponsible public rhetoric: hook, line and sinker. 

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’ve decided to stay put, but surely anyone who’s chosen to accept a guest from London has accepted that risk, so Londoners shouldn’t be shamed. 

by getting pn packed trains they're not just risking whoever they're visiting.

[Ozanne]

I'm not meaning to belittle anyone's situation or struggles but trying to focus on the positive. We have comfortable homes, food to eat and loved ones we will be able to see again one day. Things will get better.

[steviewevie]

I guess the trains would have been more packed on 23rd anyway, and again on the 27th.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

by getting pn packed trains they're not just risking whoever they're visiting.

Rightly or wrongly I don’t reckon avoiding spreading to randomers is a key priority to a lot of people. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Rightly or wrongly I don’t reckon avoiding spreading to randomers is a key priority to a lot of people. 

id agree with that .... its not even a priority amongst my colleagues to people they work with .... let alone to randomers 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Rightly or wrongly I don’t reckon avoiding spreading to randomers is a key priority to a lot of people. 

we need a poll!

[Brownie30]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Rightly or wrongly I don’t reckon avoiding spreading to randomers is a key priority to a lot of people. 

Maybe because they've been put into a 6 hour fight or flight situation by an incompetent Government who have had WEEKS to put plans in place, whilst being consistently warned by scientists and medical professionals that this would happen? As above, there's a huge difference between those who have shown total disregard for others since March, and those who are rapidly leaving London today. I think it is grossly unfair to label those people in pictures today as selfish. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Brownie30

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

id agree with that .... its not even a priority amongst my colleagues to people they work with .... let alone to randomers 

I really don’t agree that most Brits are thinking nah Christmas isn’t that big of a deal after a really difficult year apart from my family - will happily just sack it off. 
 

Madness. I know I’m not being the presumptive one here.

[Matt42]

Just now, Brownie30 said:

As above, there's a huge difference between those who have shown total disregard for others since March, and those who are rapidly leaving London today. I think it is vastly unfair to label those people in pictures today as selfish. 

Exactly. This is some of the most unfair finger pointing I’ve seen all year. Exactly what the tories want. They can all have a fantastic Christmas knowing that we are all playing the blame game with eachother.

[philipsteak]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Plans that they were totally allowed to make A FEW DAYS AGO.

If you’re not in this situation (trying to leave London before going to Tier4) I honestly think you have no opinion on the matter. 

So you're in charge of who gets to have an opinion? You really are very silly Matt.

Things change. It's a changing situation. Yes the timing was awful, as it has been all the way through. People's plans have been forced to change all the way through this and yes, the fact it's Christmas and such short notice makes it shit, but things change

The thing is, I do actually have a lot of sympathy for people doing what you're advocating. I like to think I wouldn't do it, and in all honesty I don't think I would, but who knows? I was planning on spending Christmas alone anyway (housemates and friends either working or going to family. I didn't want to go to my mum's as she has COPD and I encounter a lot of people at work so didn't want to take the risk) so where does that place me in your hierarchy of people allowed to have opinions? 

The comment you were replying to here was about the idea that a lot of people seem to be developing, that the government are handling this so badly that the response is to disregard any guidance, even if by doing so you are potentially making the situation worse. It's almost like "I'll show them" but it doesn't work. Yes, they are fucking up. On an incredible scale. But personal responsibility and choice come in to it too

My earlier comment you replied to was more about your habit of making statements about 'everyone' and 'anyone' when what you mean is 'you'. That's fine, you do what you think is right, just don't justify it by making out that everyone is the same as you

[philipsteak]

19 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

There's a massive difference between those heading off on a festive jolly, bounding between pubs, bars and houses with no regard for the rules and individuals leaving London tonight in a last minute panic now that any safe (and legal till today) plans have been ruled out by the same government who were so excited about the prospect of a 3 day Covid hiatus.

If anyone isn't still blaming the Government for all of this they're buying into the irresponsible public rhetoric: hook, line and sinker. 

Can't it be both?

[Brownie30]

1 minute ago, philipsteak said:

Can't it be both?

In many situations yes, in the case of those people scrambling to change their plans today with no notice from the Government, I would err towards suggesting it is much more the Government's fault. Blaming the public is exactly what they want us to do as "individual responsibility" has been their deflection tactic since March. 

[dotdash79]

The sickening thing is that these areas that people are traveling to have been under tighter measures for months. A lot of them have only just got it under control not been moved down a tier, and to see this with the potential to fuck it again is really frustrating. 

[Ozanne]

Latest polling shows Brits overwhelmingly will not break the government's new rules over Christmas:

 

 

[efcfanwirral]

8 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

The comment you were replying to here was about the idea that a lot of people seem to be developing, that the government are handling this so badly that the response is to disregard any guidance, even if by doing so you are potentially making the situation worse. It's almost like "I'll show them" but it doesn't work. Yes, they are fucking up. On an incredible scale. But personal responsibility and choice come in to it too

This about sums up where I am- we can blame the government all we want but the reality of the situation, or the dangers we face, don't change. So behaviour shouldn't change. It's the same as people blaming dominic cummings for them choosing to break the rules. 

The government are not the ones that will suffer 

Edited December 19, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

But anyone who can avoid spending Christmas alone is going to avoid spending Christmas alone.? 

That's not true. Not everyone.@crazyfool1 is more worried about getting ill-spreading the virus to others than being alone at Christmas.

I'm lucky living with my family that I want to spend Christmas with, so I really don't know what I would do if I lived alone in London. But I do know that the idea of getting on a packed train at the moment scares the living shit out of me.

[stuartbert two hats]

17 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I really don’t agree that most Brits are thinking nah Christmas isn’t that big of a deal after a really difficult year apart from my family - will happily just sack it off. 
 

Madness. I know I’m not being the presumptive one here.

You definitely are. Everyone else is pointing out there might be alternatives whilst you're throwing absolute statements around.

[philipsteak]

7 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

In many situations yes, in the case of those people scrambling to change their plans today with no notice from the Government, I would err towards suggesting it is much more the Government's fault. Blaming the public is exactly what they want us to do as "individual responsibility" has been their deflection tactic since March. 

But that's the thing. The point of the new rules and guidance (again, handled terribly, like pretty much everything else. No arguments from me) was to make people change their plans. By not leaving Tier 4 areas. Some chose to accept that meant they weren't going to see family at Christmas, and some chose to get on busy trains. It was a choice. 

[Matt42]

Just now, philipsteak said:

But that's the thing. The point of the new rules and guidance (again, handled terribly, like pretty much everything else. No arguments from me) was to make people change their plans. By not leaving Tier 4 areas. Some chose to accept that meant they weren't going to see family at Christmas, and some chose to get on busy trains. It was a choice. 

Their choice and you’re wrong to tut them for it if it’s a decision you haven’t had to make yourself. 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

You definitely are. Everyone else is pointing out there might be alternatives whilst you're throwing absolute statements around.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

You definitely are. Everyone else is pointing out there might be alternatives whilst you're throwing absolute statements around.

And the original comments saying that people leaving London were selfish sounded pretty absolutist to me.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's not true. Not everyone.@crazyfool1 is more worried about getting ill-spreading the virus to others than being alone at Christmas.

I'm lucky living with my family that I want to spend Christmas with, so I really don't know what I would do if I lived alone in London. But I do know that the idea of getting on a packed train at the moment scares the living shit out of me.

yep totally Stu .... I know there will be other Christmas celebrations and very likely a delayed one for my family .... People hold christmas out to be a special day with family , food , and drink , with gifts .... and absolutely many people will be desperate to spend time with loved ones after a very shit year but they can still do that at a different time  .... many have lost loved ones and won't be fortunate enough to spend any Christmas days with them in the future and any mental health consequences for me would be far worse with a risk of me transmitting the virus to them 

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I can never tell whether Lucas was aware that was an absolute statement when he wrote it or not.