When will this shit end?

[DeanoL]

34 minutes ago, jparx said:

My worry about masks is people suddenly stockpiling them and those that really need them having to go without, or making an alternative face covering that's not quite adequate. If we had a decent government, ideally we'd be able to source good quality masks for everyone that needs them without any complications, but that's not reality. 

I just know that if "wear masks/coverings in public" becomes the guideline, you won't be able to buy masks anywhere. People won't make do with a scarf or something, they will all buy masks in bulk. Wearing a scarf will be OK for me doing my weekly shop, but key workers will need something more robust. Until we're confident everyone who truly needs a mask for their work can get hold of one, I honestly don't know if it's best to launch that guideline for the general public.

But as with all this, I really don't know. That's just my opinion at this moment in time!

Edit: just to be clear - in an ideal world I'd agree everyone wearing masks or coverings should be the case, but unfortunately we're far from an ideal world at the moment.

Masks protect other people from you infecting them though, rather than the other way around. If that's communicated properly, the hoarders should basically be giving them out to as many people as possible. People not having access puts you at risk.

[Toilet Duck]

16 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Unless the government is going to start producing and distributing masks free of charge, making them mandatory in public is an absurd thing to demand.  

That's pretty much what is happening where they have been made mandatory. 

[efcfanwirral]

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

That's pretty much what is happening where they have been made mandatory. 

And that just indicates how insanely incompetent our government is - others are managing to get supplies or make them. 

When our two reasons for not doing something that would improve public health hugely are that the government can't or won't get/make the supplies, or that the public are so stupid that if they wear a mask they'll forget to socially distance (though that's probably a cover for point 1), it just displays how broken the country is. 

[shoptildrop]

11 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Masks protect other people from you infecting them though, rather than the other way around. If that's communicated properly, the hoarders should basically be giving them out to as many people as possible. People not having access puts you at risk.

I do wish they did make this clear and explain it on one of the daily briefings tbh, along with how chatting in the shop over the open veg aisle also is potential spreading of germs.

[Crazyfool01]

It’s like logging in at 9.40 and wondering why the Glastonbury tickets have all sold out !! And repeating for everything relating to this 

Edited April 23, 2020 by crazyfool1

[efcfanwirral]

Just now, shoptildrop said:

I do wish they did make this clear and explain it on one of the daily briefings tbh, along with how chatting in the shop over the open veg aisle also is potential spreading of germs.

But that might make more people connect the dots that everyone should be wearing one...

[jparx]

Just now, DeanoL said:

Masks protect other people from you infecting them though, rather than the other way around. If that's communicated properly, the hoarders should basically be giving them out to as many people as possible. People not having access puts you at risk.

Yep, but people were also told supermarkets didn't have a lack of loo roll.

 

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Should be easy enough to prohibit the sale or import of FFP2/3 masks though as what's required by the public and frontline workers are not the same thing. Proper guidance on what types of face covering help limit the spread and how to use them sustainably is what is required (while reinforcing the guidance on hand hygiene etc).  We'd need trillions of surgical masks if everyone was to use them correctly if that's where they went, so they need to think outside the box on this a bit (basically anything that blocks droplets while coughing, sneezing, speaking, yawning etc..even bike masks with PM2.5 disposable filters would do the job to a degree, can be washed and reused again and again...they won't block individual viral particles as they are too small, but I saw tests somewhere that compared various masks and they were 80% as good as FFP3 respirators and equally good compared to surgical masks, which is enough to flatten the curve a lot) . Coupled with better contact tracing and testing and this opens things up a lot more. Knowing there's a shortage of PPE isn't a good enough reason to ignore a workaround that even partially achieves the goal of reducing transmission (and 80% as good is probably enough, certainly as good as was hoped from social distancing). 

Good points, and more than happy to defer to you TD. As long as frontline workers are getting the right gear and joe public aren't taking away, then I'm on board, and if we can restrict FFP2/3 masks to those who truly need them that's great. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

29 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Unless the government is going to start producing and distributing masks free of charge, making them mandatory in public is an absurd thing to demand.  

Mrs c is a community carer and yesterday received her first box of masks and aprons. Gloves have not been a problem, simply because our local butcher , no joke, gave her a couple of boxes last week!  Supplies have finally arrived in decent quantities for council workers.  I’ve to wear masks and gloves when I deliver shopping and bed pads to the elderly. Basically to protect them from anything I could be carrying.  It’s heartbreaking seeing the dementia patients, bewildered and frail. 

[Leyrulion]

58 minutes ago, Chrisp1986 said:

I know I started this thread but not read all comments. Got tickets for a gig at 1000 seater venue (comedian) in October, postponed from March, anything been said on chances of these size events starting? Anyone has opinions?

The only reasonable answer is it's too early and no one knows. 

If (when) the virus is still around in October we've no idea how strict the social distancing measures will need to be. 

There's maybe some evidence that the u.k. peaked before the full effects of the lockdown came into effect. Early indications that perhaps Sweden peaked without a full lock down. But those data points could be false dawn's and we won't know for several weeks (or indeed months) when there's more data.

The virus has only been around for 4 months so no one realistically knows what will happen in 6 months time and IMHO anyone saying "100%" either way is scaremongering or offering false hope. 

[Toilet Duck]

18 minutes ago, jparx said:

Yep, but people were also told supermarkets didn't have a lack of loo roll.

 

Good points, and more than happy to defer to you TD. As long as frontline workers are getting the right gear and joe public aren't taking away, then I'm on board, and if we can restrict FFP2/3 masks to those who truly need them that's great. 

To be honest, I don't have all the answers, It's quite clear at the moment though that lack of supply is what's limiting making mask wearing mandatory (and I entirely agree with reserving respirators and other crucial PPE for frontline workers). The vast majority of people won't bang a mask or any other kind of face-covering on and think, great, I don't need to wash my hands anymore and that packed tube is exactly where I want to be (though they may not have a choice on that). A little more faith in people when given clear advice is required.

[stuartbert two hats]

I've just read the Scottish document and I'm not sure if it says anything?

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/strategy-plan/2020/04/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/documents/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/govscot%3Adocument/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making.pdf

[Toilet Duck]

8 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I've just read the Scottish document and I'm not sure if it says anything?

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/strategy-plan/2020/04/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/documents/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/govscot%3Adocument/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making.pdf

Seems rather aspirational, but short on details. 

FWIW, I just received our planning for reopening and getting people back into our research labs. 30% occupancy max allowed, markings on the floors to help guide social distancing while in work, rosters so that people don't have to be there at the same time, templates for ramping up occupancy and altering rosters if restrictions are eased further and PPE for all while on the premises (we don't actually have any as we gave it all to our hospitals, but they'll buy more before we partially open again sometime in May). The only PPE they are adding to what we would normally have in the lab is face masks! (labcoats, goggles are standard anyway at the bench).

[km9]

1 hour ago, FestivalJamie said:

Please can you sign this petition if you agree masks/face coverings should be mandatory in public spaces.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/304397

Thanks for your support in advance

I don't, so I won't.

[DeanoL]

50 minutes ago, jparx said:

Yep, but people were also told supermarkets didn't have a lack of loo roll.

But the difference here is that people panic-bought loo roll as a selfish act - they wanted to ensure they were sorted if there was a shortage. People will generally act selfishly.

That same thinking, if it's made clear that you're only protected if other people wear masks, should encourage people to actually give them away! Now, there is a potential problem here, and that's if you push that message that "masks are for other people's protection" then there will be some that go "well I'm not wearing one then, because it doesn't help me" - which may be why they're not going heavy on that message.

[Crazyfool01]

1 hour ago, km9 said:

I don't, so I won't.

Can I ask your reasoning ? 

[km9]

39 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Can I ask your reasoning ? 

Yes of course. Most of the general public don't know how to use masks correctly, and many will feel that if we are all wearing masks we can relax the social distancing and good hygiene. I saw a guy the other day wearing a mask over his mask but under his nose. How many times did he touch the part which he was breathing out on?

[morph100]

On 4/22/2020 at 12:27 PM, Jamesyp42 said:

Yeah, for sure. It's going pretty well at the moment. But recording VO is a challenge, as a lot of the talent don't have home recording studios. Some do, but others don't. Some studios use motion capture for the majority of their animation as well, which will currently be on hold. 

As I said, much bigger fish to fry in the world, but it's certainly interesting how it's forcing some industries to operate differently and think of creative solutions to the problems they're facing.

Ah yes I forget games have changed since the Super Nintendo and they now have voices that need to match lips moving 😂

[stuartbert two hats]

6 minutes ago, km9 said:

Yes of course. Most of the general public don't know how to use masks correctly, and many will feel that if we are all wearing masks we can relax the social distancing and good hygiene. I saw a guy the other day wearing a mask over his mask but under his nose. How many times did he touch the part which he was breathing out on?

That doesn't mean they are worse than no mask at all for the purpose of preventing spread.  That only gets you a net negative if you're wearing your mask for protection.

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, km9 said:

Yes of course. Most of the general public don't know how to use masks correctly, and many will feel that if we are all wearing masks we can relax the social distancing and good hygiene. I saw a guy the other day wearing a mask over his mask but under his nose. How many times did he touch the part which he was breathing out on?

So if you know how it should be worn , why wouldn’t you personally knowing that it might prevent transmission to others ?

[Ozanne]

It’s a trust thing isn’t it, so you really trust people to wear a mask correctly so you are protected?

[Crazyfool01]

The current test centres look very London based to me ... I know more will come online but I can see massive gaps on the maps surely they can work out why there are massive problems with uptake of tests 

[northernringo]

On 4/22/2020 at 11:51 AM, Superscally said:

I'm a key worker. I can't get tested.

You supposedly can now  

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, northernringo said:

You supposedly can now  

If you are anywhere near a test centre ... 

[Ozanne]

They’ll be posted out now by the Army won’t they?

[Ozanne]

This popped me for some reason.