When will this shit end?

[gizmoman]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780269/More-TEN-MILLION-download-NHS-track-trace-app-three-days.html

Venues are now refusing to admit people who don't have the app, Turtle bay is one, their site claims it's the law when it isn't. So if you don't want the app, have an old phone or even an older smartphone that can't run the app you're going to be "banned" from these places.

[Crazyfool01]

7 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780269/More-TEN-MILLION-download-NHS-track-trace-app-three-days.html

Venues are now refusing to admit people who don't have the app, Turtle bay is one, their site claims it's the law when it isn't. So if you don't want the app, have an old phone or even an older smartphone that can't run the app you're going to be "banned" from these places.

thats their loss though isn't it .... just go elsewhere ... ?  it doesnt work properly anyway .... ive got it but until it works won't be checking in anywhere until it checks me out properly 

[Copperface]

7 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780269/More-TEN-MILLION-download-NHS-track-trace-app-three-days.html

Venues are now refusing to admit people who don't have the app, Turtle bay is one, their site claims it's the law when it isn't. So if you don't want the app, have an old phone or even an older smartphone that can't run the app you're going to be "banned" from these places.

"their site claims it's the law when it isn't"

 

This is what their actually site says

 

Track and Trace

We now need to ask everyone entering our restaurants to enter their contact details on the NHS Covid-19 App when they arrive.

You'll be able to this from your table, we have QR codes at the table to help you download the App.

 

Their restaurants are private premises - they can admit whoever they want and set whichever preconditions (that don't breach laws). Good luck to them. Don't agree, don't go..... 

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

thats their loss though isn't it .... just go elsewhere ... ?  it doesnt work properly anyway .... ive got it but until it works won't be checking in anywhere until it checks me out properly 

Exactly. I’m not going to miss their horrible pre-mixed sugar laden cocktails anyway. The food is nothing special either. Same with Nandos, looks fancy and is trendy but it’s just reheated crap. 

[Homer]

11 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780269/More-TEN-MILLION-download-NHS-track-trace-app-three-days.html

Venues are now refusing to admit people who don't have the app, Turtle bay is one, their site claims it's the law when it isn't. So if you don't want the app, have an old phone or even an older smartphone that can't run the app you're going to be "banned" from these places.

I found this a bit annoying when I was down in Dorset in the summer. Been on the beach all day listening to the cricket so my battery was almost gone, but most of the pubs wouldn't let you in if you didn't have a phone, as you couldn't order any other way. Surely not everyone has a smartphone.

[gizmoman]

Just now, Copperface said:

"their site claims it's the law when it isn't"

 

This is what their actually site says

 

Track and Trace

We now need to ask everyone entering our restaurants to enter their contact details on the NHS Covid-19 App when they arrive.

You'll be able to this from your table, we have QR codes at the table to help you download the App.

 

Their restaurants are private premises - they can admit whoever they want and set whichever preconditions (that don't breach laws). Good luck to them. Don't agree, don't go..... 

No you're wrong their site says,

Track & Trace: From Thursday 24th September, by law we'll need you to register your details through the NHS Track & Trace App.

 

https://www.turtlebay.co.uk/news/keeping-you-safe

 

It's all very well saying go elsewhere, but what if other bars and restaurants follow suit? you become a second class citizen with little access to leisure.

[mcshed]

1 minute ago, gizmoman said:

No you're wrong their site says,

Track & Trace: From Thursday 24th September, by law we'll need you to register your details through the NHS Track & Trace App.

 

https://www.turtlebay.co.uk/news/keeping-you-safe

 

It's all very well saying go elsewhere, but what if other bars and restaurants follow suit? you become a second class citizen with little access to leisure.

Isn't it now law that you have to provide tracking details? So they are just asking you to do that via the app.

[Copperface]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

No you're wrong their site says,

Track & Trace: From Thursday 24th September, by law we'll need you to register your details through the NHS Track & Trace App.

 

https://www.turtlebay.co.uk/news/keeping-you-safe

 

It's all very well saying go elsewhere, but what if other bars and restaurants follow suit? you become a second class citizen with little access to leisure.

Yep, just actually found that. What I copied and pasted is also direct from their site so both are correct.https://www.turtlebay.co.uk/news/before-your-visit

I'm wondering if they have put that on as they do have locations in Wales where it is actually a legal requirement and they have not differentiated. It is not a legal requirement in England. The restaurant only has to display the QR code.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Copperface

[steviewevie]

30 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Encouraging signs from Scotland and Wales. Wales cases were 22% up on this time last week and Scotland was down compared to last Monday. Overall for the UK, we registered 4368 cases last Monday. I’d be very surprised if we post a lower number than that today, but I’m optimistic we’ll see another day where we haven’t doubled in a week. If we see < 6,000 cases then that’s a reason for early optimism that the rule of 6 has caused some downwards pressure on R (albeit not to an extent that we were hoping for) 

maybe not just rule of 6...but also the need to stay vigilant with social distancing rules etc.

[gizmoman]

The other point is that it could well be illegal under the equality act, it's against the law to discriminate on basis of age, there's a strong argument this discriminates against older people who are much less likely to have a modern smartphone.

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

maybe not just rule of 6...but also the need to stay vigilant with social distancing rules etc.

Yeah spot on. Household contacts will have gone down, either through the rule of 6 itself or people generally taking more care to avoid a devastating second lockdown. 

[FestivalJamie]

36 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Encouraging signs from Scotland and Wales. Wales cases were 22% up on this time last week and Scotland was down compared to last Monday. Overall for the UK, we registered 4368 cases last Monday. I’d be very surprised if we post a lower number than that today, but I’m optimistic we’ll see another day where we haven’t doubled in a week. If we see < 6,000 cases then that’s a reason for early optimism that the rule of 6 has caused some downwards pressure on R (albeit not to an extent that we were hoping for) 

Hmm got to remember 2/3 of welsh population locked down though and whole of scotland has banned mixing households, so interactions for the population of both countries will be lower than for England.

[DeanoL]

25 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8780269/More-TEN-MILLION-download-NHS-track-trace-app-three-days.html

Venues are now refusing to admit people who don't have the app, Turtle bay is one, their site claims it's the law when it isn't. So if you don't want the app, have an old phone or even an older smartphone that can't run the app you're going to be "banned" from these places.

The law is they have to do contact tracing. So they either have to set up a process to do it manually, or insist you use the app.

Honestly I think insisting on the app is better, especially as we've already seen people putting fake details on sign in sheets where they have been used.

The cheapest smartphone on Amazon is £41, or ten drinks - so I don't think it's overly onerous a requirement, given we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

The other point is that it could well be illegal under the equality act, it's against the law to discriminate on basis of age, there's a strong argument this discriminates against older people who are much less likely to have a modern smartphone.

like me

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

The other point is that it could well be illegal under the equality act, it's against the law to discriminate on basis of age, there's a strong argument this discriminates against older people who are much less likely to have a modern smartphone.

Could being the operative word. You can discriminate if the aim is proportionate and not purely financial.

[Copperface]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The law is they have to do contact tracing. So they either have to set up a process to do it manually, or insist you use the app.

Honestly I think insisting on the app is better, especially as we've already seen people putting fake details on sign in sheets where they have been used.

The cheapest smartphone on Amazon is £41, or ten drinks - so I don't think it's overly onerous a requirement, given we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2020/09/hospitality-venues-must-display-qr-codes-as-tracing-app-goes-live/

Hospitality outlets in England will face £1,000 fines if they do not display an official Track and Trace poster, featuring their assigned QR code.

In England, but not in Wales, app users that check-in using the NHS app do not have to leave their name and contact details with the hospitality venue. In Wales it also not a legal requirement for outlets to display the code, however venues in both countries are required to comply with track and trace.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Copperface

[parsonjack]

46 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Cheers mate - it's absolutely horrible but we're getting through. 61 far too young 😔 

Sorry to hear this.  I lost my Dad at just 68, it was almost 20 years ago now but still seems like yesterday.  Stay strong.

[gizmoman]

Just now, Copperface said:

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2020/09/hospitality-venues-must-display-qr-codes-as-tracing-app-goes-live/

Hospitality outlets in England will face £1,000 fines if they do not display an official Track and Trace poster, featuring their assigned QR code.

In England, but not in Wales, app users that check-in using the NHS app do not have to leave their name and contact details with the hospitality venue. In Wales it also not a legal requirement for outlets to display the code, however venues in both countries are required to comply with track and trace.

Venues in England have to display the QR code but they can also take details by other means, the situation in Wales is the same, they have to take details on way or the other, the customer should have the choice whether to use the app or not.

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Hmm got to remember 2/3 of welsh population locked down though and whole of scotland has banned mixing households, so interactions for the population of both countries will be lower than for England.

True, although we may not be seeing the full effects of those changes yet. I’d expect the R number to go down below 1 in Wales and Scotland in 2-3 weeks. 

[gizmoman]

Just now, DeanoL said:

The law is they have to do contact tracing. So they either have to set up a process to do it manually, or insist you use the app.

Honestly I think insisting on the app is better, especially as we've already seen people putting fake details on sign in sheets where they have been used.

The cheapest smartphone on Amazon is £41, or ten drinks - so I don't think it's overly onerous a requirement, given we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

You don't think it's possible to have a separate phone for this purpose with fake details?

[parsonjack]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Venues in England have to display the QR code but they can also take details by other means, the situation in Wales is the same, they have to take details on way or the other, the customer should have the choice whether to use the app or not.

Quite.  My 84 year old Mum doesn't have a smartphone but she likes to have tea and a bun when she's out somewhere in town.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, gizmoman said:

You don't think it's possible to have a separate phone for this purpose with fake details?

It doesn't matter as long as that's also the phone you record your positive test result on should you get on. Your identity is irrelevant.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

You don't think it's possible to have a separate phone for this purpose with fake details?

Obviously it’s possible but it’s going to be far easier for someone to write a fake name down than to get a 2nd phone to use for faking their details. All so they don’t have to give them name to a bar, seems a bit far fetched. 

[gizmoman]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Obviously it’s possible but it’s going to be far easier for someone to write a fake name down than to get a 2nd phone to use for faking their details. All so they don’t have to give them name to a bar, seems a bit far fetched. 

It's not giving your name to the bar that's the problem, it's being tracked by the government, when you scan the code it's verified online so you are tracked whenever you enter a new place, it's the invasion of privacy that's the issue.

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

It's not giving your name to the bar that's the problem, it's being tracked by the government, when you scan the code it's verified online so you are tracked whenever you enter a new place, it's the invasion of privacy that's the issue.

You don’t give any personal details with the QR code, no personal details will be shared. I don’t see it as an invasion of privacy at all, it’s a tool that can be used to help against the virus.

If you have a smartphone you are already being tracked in some form due to GPRS signals.