Ticket refund

[Johnnyseven]

17 hours ago, bombfrog said:

How about we start from the beginning but I get to ask the loaded questions?

Do you you think if my wife and I save up £500 and spend it on two tickets to an event that we shouldn't be able to then sell that on to somebody else if we want to, the same way you're allowed to sell your car if you don't want it any more, or take your phone into CEX to trade it in? Does that seem fair to you?

 

If you don't like the terms and conditions that come with buying the ticket then don't buy the ticket.

[bombfrog]

6 minutes ago, Johnnyseven said:

If you don't like the terms and conditions that come with buying the ticket then don't buy the ticket.

Yeah, nobody should ever say they disagree with something. God forbid somebody should have a different opinion.

[Sasperella]

2 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Yeah, nobody should ever say they disagree with something. God forbid somebody should have a different opinion.

He's not saying you can't disagree with it. He's just saying if you disagree with something quite fundamental like the ability to get a refund the day before the festival, don't buy a ticket

[clarkete]

Kill me now  ?

[Johnnyseven]

19 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Yeah, nobody should ever say they disagree with something. God forbid somebody should have a different opinion.

You agreed to the terms and conditions when you bought the tickets, are you saying you agreed to them then but disagree with them now?

Edited May 15, 2019 by Johnnyseven

[Penrhos]

When it comes down to it - this is what "ticket protection" is for....

With SeeTickets having their own version of twickets "Fan2Fan" I could see the day when you can resell Glasto tickets at face value via SeeTickets, the problems I can see are : you'd have to be registered and they'd have to have enough time to print a fresh ticket.

I'd ask if they'd refund and explain the circumstances.  You may get a partial refund, maybe not. But risking selling it and hoping the steward will let them through (potentially risking their own place at the festival) is not really an option.

[thrillhouse188]

The problem with any type of non-anonymous face-value resale system is the two parties can converse outside to negotiate some additional cost, so touts can make money and bloat the sales which has to be avoided for a fair system IMO. 

I'd propose, after the resale has taken place, giving those registered who did not get a ticket the opportunity to sign up to a queue system. You're given a place in the queue based on some metric, most obviously how quick you are to sign up to it. Those with tickets are free to cancel for a refund up to some date (can one void an already printed and posted ticket for example?), and each times this happens the first person in the queue is emailed and given the chance to buy that ticket, with some time period before it's offered to the next person.

Could something like this work? 

Edited May 15, 2019 by thrillhouse188

[stuie]

I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is?

We don't know how many people want to cancel after the cancellation deadline.  Glastonbury and See will though and as we all know, Michael and Emily have a reputation of doing things fairly, so I'd say if this was affecting lots of people and causing hardship then they would do something about it.

I'm pretty sure they would never let their tickets be touted though.

[incident]

Just now, thrillhouse188 said:

I'd propose, after the resale has taken place, giving those registered who did not get a ticket the opportunity to sign up to a queue system. You're given a place in the queue based on some metric, most obviously how quick you are to sign up to it. Those with tickets are free to cancel for a refund up to some date (can one void an already printed and posted ticket for example?), and each times this happens the first person in the queue is emailed and given the chance to buy that ticket, with some time period before it's offered to the next person.

Could something like this work? 

That pretty much exactly describes the system that Shambala tried 2 years ago.

They ditched it after that first year saying it was a nightmare to administrate and the time period caused too many issues, although I don't know whether that's because of flaws in the idea or flaws in the implementation. Probably a combination of the two.

I suspect that the added scale and complication (photos) of Glastonbury tickets would make it unworkable. One of the main reasons most ideas that get floated are non-runners is because things are already too complicated as it is, both in terms of the ticketing/administration and also at the gates, adding an extra layer on top of that isn't going to be popular with anyone involved in the decision making process.

Ultimately I do think something is likely to change at some point in the future that should allow face value anonymous resales, but that it will have to wait until a technology solution can be found that's reliable enough to be trusted to meet the needs of 20ish gates in a variety of locations and a large number of ticket/wristband types and exceptions. Bear in mind over the past couple years smaller festivals with far fewer demands and obstacles still sometimes have encountered problems with the barcode/rfid based systems out there at the moment so can understand why they're not an option yet.

[clarkete]

25 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is?

Tiny, yet the same enticing suggestions trot out every year  

[thrillhouse188]

43 minutes ago, incident said:

That pretty much exactly describes the system that Shambala tried 2 years ago.

They ditched it after that first year saying it was a nightmare to administrate and the time period caused too many issues, although I don't know whether that's because of flaws in the idea or flaws in the implementation. Probably a combination of the two.

I suspect that the added scale and complication (photos) of Glastonbury tickets would make it unworkable. One of the main reasons most ideas that get floated are non-runners is because things are already too complicated as it is, both in terms of the ticketing/administration and also at the gates, adding an extra layer on top of that isn't going to be popular with anyone involved in the decision making process.

Ultimately I do think something is likely to change at some point in the future that should allow face value anonymous resales, but that it will have to wait until a technology solution can be found that's reliable enough to be trusted to meet the needs of 20ish gates in a variety of locations and a large number of ticket/wristband types and exceptions. Bear in mind over the past couple years smaller festivals with far fewer demands and obstacles still sometimes have encountered problems with the barcode/rfid based systems out there at the moment so can understand why they're not an option yet.

Interesting, fair enough! The difficulty I guess comes from requiring anonymity, but without that the touts win!

[marcoolio]

1 hour ago, thrillhouse188 said:

The problem with any type of non-anonymous face-value resale system is the two parties can converse outside to negotiate some additional cost, so touts can make money and bloat the sales which has to be avoided for a fair system IMO. 

I'd propose, after the resale has taken place, giving those registered who did not get a ticket the opportunity to sign up to a queue system. You're given a place in the queue based on some metric, most obviously how quick you are to sign up to it. Those with tickets are free to cancel for a refund up to some date (can one void an already printed and posted ticket for example?), and each times this happens the first person in the queue is emailed and given the chance to buy that ticket, with some time period before it's offered to the next person.

Could something like this work? 

I know Rock Werchter uses a system like that. It hasn't sold out yet this year though, so it isn't active.

Tomorrowland does currently have an active ticket exchange desk, that seems to work much like you described. https://www.tomorrowland.com/en/festival/tickets/exchange-desk

However, the exchange desk for Tomorrowland closes May 20th, two months before the festival. So it doesn't seem to offer much of an advantage to Glastonbury's resale system.

 

[bombfrog]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is?

We don't know how many people want to cancel after the cancellation deadline.

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely to be an insignificant number.

 

(*) Unless, they are, as we're told absorbed back in to free passes, backstage thingys and corporate tickets, in which case it's exactly what people are trying to battle against because it "kills my vibe, man".

[Tranquility of Solitude]

8 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely to be an insignificant number.

 

(*) Unless, they are, as we're told absorbed back in to free passes, backstage thingys and corporate tickets, in which case it's exactly what people are trying to battle against because it "kills my vibe, man".

Loving the fact that you think 1 in 100.... conservatively speaking .... now don’t want to go.

I suspect you’re wrong. But that’s the beauty of online debate. Have a hug. Chill out. Get with the vibe man.

[stuie]

13 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely to be an insignificant number. 

 

(*) Unless, they are, as we're told absorbed back in to free passes, backstage thingys and corporate tickets, in which case it's exactly what people are trying to battle against because it "kills my vibe, man".

Maybe it would be a good idea to email the festival about this injustice? 

Also, holiday companies, airlines, car dealers, hotels and any other company that has cancellation penalties.

[gigpusher]

11 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely to be an insignificant number.

 

(*) Unless, they are, as we're told absorbed back in to free passes, backstage thingys and corporate tickets, in which case it's exactly what people are trying to battle against because it "kills my vibe, man".

More likely to be in 1 in 500/1000 people in which case it's 140/280 people which really isn't a huge number in the grand scheme of things. This thread is getting a bit ridiculous now. I think everyone is absolutely in agreement that we wish there was a better way to help the few people who are affected by their being a 6 week window in which you can't get a refund for your ticket but the majority agree that whilst they feel awful for the few people who can't get money back it is a lesser evil than allowing the touting of tickets because of the impact it would have on ticket day and subsequently on ticket prices.  I suspect those who believe touting is ok will never be convinced otherwise and vice versa. 

Hope the OP has found a resolution to their problem. 

[Kashkin]

22 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely to be an insignificant number.

 

(*) Unless, they are, as we're told absorbed back in to free passes, backstage thingys and corporate tickets, in which case it's exactly what people are trying to battle against because it "kills my vibe, man".

You think 1 in 100 (or more) people want to cancel during the final 6 weeks before the festival? Wow....

[ledwards]

I wonder if OP ever got his refund? Bet he wasn't expecting this!

[Lycra]

32 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Even if it was only 1 in 100 people (likely a conservative estimate) that's still 1400 people, which is 1400 fewer people at the festival (*), 1400 people who really want a resale ticket and can't get one and £350,000 in lost money for punters. We see them post on here every year so it's unlikely an insignificant number.

It's total speculation on the numbers not able to go who have paid in full so to cite 1400 as conservative on scant data is akin to the claims for the number of people trying to buy tickets in the general October sale. Yes we do get people on the forums who are not able to go having paid but how many does this amount to? I've not witnessed significant numbers.

As for changing the system to accommodate late cancellations with a refund and subsequent resale.....The new system may give rise to bigger problems than the tiny number it solves. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Lycra

[bombfrog]

2 hours ago, Johnnyseven said:

You agreed to the terms and conditions when you bought the tickets.

Actually, I didn't ?

[bombfrog]

15 minutes ago, Kashkin said:

You think 1 in 100 (or more) people want to cancel during the final 6 weeks before the festival? Wow....

Just 1%. That assertion is far more likely than the poster above who suggested that the festival is so oversubscribed that 2 million people are trying to get a ticket on T-day, yet apparently that comment was fine  People on here need to get some perspective.

[Kashkin]

1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

Just 1%. That assertion is far more likely than the poster above who suggested that the festival is so oversubscribed that 2 million people are trying to get a ticket on T-day, yet apparently that comment was fine  People on here need to get some perspective.

Didn't notice that comment but I'm happy to agree that 2 million seems a very high estimate for ticket day. But I also think 1% seems way too high for people wanting to drop out just in the last 6 weeks leading up to the festival, when they have known about and planned for this event for the best part of a year.

[Madyaker]

10 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Just 1%. That assertion is far more likely than the poster above who suggested that the festival is so oversubscribed that 2 million people are trying to get a ticket on T-day, yet apparently that comment was fine  People on here need to get some perspective.

Emily said on twitter that over a million were registered this year and they had very few tickets for the resale, the least ever.

It sucks that people can't get a refund after the deadline but that's got to be a fairly small number and it's definitely not worth opening it up to touts just so these people can get their money back.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Madyaker

[MilkyJoe]

Left thread at page 5, checks in again at page 9. Nothing to see here...

[thrillhouse188]

1 hour ago, marcoolio said:

I know Rock Werchter uses a system like that. It hasn't sold out yet this year though, so it isn't active.

Tomorrowland does currently have an active ticket exchange desk, that seems to work much like you described. https://www.tomorrowland.com/en/festival/tickets/exchange-desk

However, the exchange desk for Tomorrowland closes May 20th, two months before the festival. So it doesn't seem to offer much of an advantage to Glastonbury's resale system.

  

Yeah, I suppose in theory if they could void the ticket remotely (I guess they scan tickets at the gate, so have that code linked to the registration number), then there needn't be a cut off until just before the festival?