Ticket refund

[bombfrog]

9 minutes ago, Madyaker said:

Like talking to a brick wall hahahahah! I'm done

Welcome to my world

[Sku]

As someone who is volunteering for the first time at the gates, checking tickets and wristbanding... I'm now slightly apprehensive after reading this thread. Hopefully I'm not faced with the situation where a photo doesn't match! 

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Quoting figures you've pulled out of your arse like £500 or £1000 is infantile. I'd be interested to hear how much theaverage person paid for their tickets when touts operated before the system was put in place. I don't remember me or any of my big group of friends ever paying over the odds and I doubt the touts actually got that many tickets or managed to sell them for anywhere near the markup people think they would. You'll see a few trying to shift them for silly money but that only works for a few rich idiots.

 

 

Tickets for Adele's concerts sold out in minutes and were being resold straight after for over £500.  Same happened for Ed Sheeran.  If they were playing Glastonbury again, what's to say that same value wouldn't be applied to a toutable ticket?

If you think that tickets for a festival that sells out in 15 minutes could not be resold for 2 or 3 times their face value you are deluded.

 

[bombfrog]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Tickets for Adele's concerts sold out in minutes and were being resold straight after for over £500.  Same happened for Ed Sheeran.  If they were playing Glastonbury again, what's to say that same value wouldn't be applied to a toutable ticket?

If you think that tickets for a festival that sells out in 15 minutes could not be resold for 2 or 3 times their face value you are deluded.

 

I think you're missing the point. Yes, a few people would pay over £500 for a ticket, but the festival has a capacity of 140,000. How many of those people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket? How much do you think the average price of a ticket would go up if touts got involved? I'm not talking about the few touts trying their luck or the few people that would pay because they've got more money than sense. I'm asking you what the average price of a ticket would have to be before the festival didn't sell out?

You think I'm deluded, I think you just haven't done the maths. Much like most people on here I think you mean well but just haven't thought it through.

[Kashkin]

9 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Our survey says.....

Try reading my comments again.

I'd much prefer a third way, but I did say at one point that the touts didn't particularly bother me, and have repeated that I don't think prices would be anywhere near what people fear if the current system didn't exist. Quoting figures you've pulled out of your arse like £500 or £1000 is infantile. I'd be interested to hear how much theaverage person paid for their tickets when touts operated before the system was put in place. I don't remember me or any of my big group of friends ever paying over the odds and I doubt the touts actually got that many tickets or managed to sell them for anywhere near the markup people think they would. You'll see a few trying to shift them for silly money but that only works for a few rich idiots.

 

I remember the days before the system was introduced. Tbh it was pretty common for people to buy additional tickets and then sell them on eBay once the tickets sold out, in fact I know people who did this 'to cover the cost of their own ticket'. I can't remember exactly but I'd say around 100% markup was usual. And these tickets did sell, from what I saw. Also, we can see what happens with other event tickets where there is no particular restriction on reselling - they get hoovered up by the likes of Viagogo and resold for wildly inflated prices. Not sure why Glastonbury would be any different to that model, if it was unrestricted?

[deadpheasant]

It's the only fair way of doing things, first come first serve. If you don't get tickets: try again in the resale or volunteer. Thinking you can get away with your mates is against the rules and on your own risk. If you get turned away by the gate staff because you get caught out that's your own fault.

[uscore]

I guess the most important thing is that Glastonbury clearly have no interest in letting the market decide the ticket price. They have set what they consider a fair price and found a system to ensure 99% of people pay that price.

Other ticket selling models are obviously possible. I like this way because I think touts are a parasite on the music industry and it pleases me they cant feed much off Glastonbury goers. 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by uscore

[incident]

30 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

As I said before, the people who are trying to get in are not the touts, they're people who love the festival and have paid a lot of money for ticket, travel, kit etc. They're just like you and me (except they weren't lucky like we were to get a ticket on T-day).

And as has been pointed out, by myself and others - those are not the only people trying to get in. That's a simple statement of fact. You can't even say with any confidence whether it's a majority of not (and nor can I)

There's definitely mystery shoppers - To be honest I don't know the percentage that got caught last time - I know some did, and I know some didn't.

There's also very likely to be - especially if tickets were transferable or if stewards are thought likely to ignore the photos - people who've acquired them by less scrupulous means. To this day the festival still warns people about giving/showing your ticket to "stewards" before you reach the gate because before the photo system that was a common scam.

If you're working on the gates, it's very problematic to start making up your own rules. The guidelines are clear, published, and there for a reason - ultimately whether you or me or anyone else agrees with them isn't all that relevant. Should I have let in the group who turned up with forged (stall holder) tickets? I spotted them because I knew what to look for, but I bet they thought they were real, sold on by a trader who had a few spare. Maybe I should have let it go? After all - they're people who love the festival and have paid a ot of money for ticket, travel, kit, etc. They're just like you and me (except they weren't lucky like we were to get a ticket on T-day).

 

[stuie]

15 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

How many of those people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

That's the point I made yesterday... the festival demographic would shift more to high earners and well off people, excluding more people that couldn't afford the 'market' value.

7 minutes ago, Kashkin said:

I remember the days before the system was introduced. Tbh it was pretty common for people to buy additional tickets and then sell them on eBay once the tickets sold out, in fact I know people who did this 'to cover the cost of their own ticket'. I can't remember exactly but I'd say around 100% markup was usual.

I'll admit I used to do this years ago with V Festival tickets - back when I couldn't afford my own tickets and it used to sell out.  I'd sell an extra one or two to cover the cost of mine.  Not proud of this now tbh, but I've no reason to think that the same thing wouldn't happen with Glasto tickets.

This is all a bit of a pointless conversation really - GFL aren't going to get rid of the photo system and test the market forces are they?

[bombfrog]

4 minutes ago, incident said:

If you're working on the gates, it's very problematic to start making up your own rules. 

I agree. But again, I think some people are just reading my posts in "angry mode" becuase I'm disagreeing with you, but not actually reading my posts properly. I also think a few of you are attributing other people's opinions to me and getting confused about who's said what...

Anyway, my point (which I've stated more than once) is that the situation shouldn't exist in the first place and only exists because of GFLs no refund/no transfer policy.

I have also not defended touts, anywhere, I have simply stated that I think people are massively inflating the extent of the problem and picking a few examples of touts trying (and occasionally succeeding) for exhorbitant prices and not understanding that that's a very different think from the average price.

I'm aware that most of you don't agree, but then I often argue with Brexiteers on Facebook too and am often outnumbered too, but it doesn't make them right ?

[bombfrog]

 

28 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

How many of those people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

That's the point I made yesterday... the festival demographic would shift more to high earners and well off people, excluding more people that couldn't afford the 'market' value.

Not answering the question though, are you. How many of the 140,000 people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

Edited May 14, 2019 by bombfrog

[incident]

43 minutes ago, Sku said:

As someone who is volunteering for the first time at the gates, checking tickets and wristbanding... I'm now slightly apprehensive after reading this thread. Hopefully I'm not faced with the situation where a photo doesn't match! 

Really no need to be worried. Ultimately the guidelines are fairly clear and the support is given to follow them through.

If you don't feel comfortable with taking a decision, or are unsure, then pass it to your supervisor, that's (part of) what they're there for.

[stuie]

8 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

 

Not answering the question though, are you. How many of the 140,000 people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

We don't have any way of knowing that do we?  I would.  Pretty sure most of my group would.  It might mean that we only do one festival, but we'd probably pay £500 instead of not going.

If £500 was the only ticket option, I think the festival could still shift it's tickets for the first year. It would be a horrible crowd with no diversity and it would fall on it's sword pretty quickly after that.

Would you pay £500?

[Kashkin]

8 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

 

Not answering the question though, are you. How many of the 140,000 people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

It seems a bit pointless to speculate, but personally I think the ease with which it sells out at current prices, and the competition for tickets, suggests that a significant proportion would pay this. 

How many of the 140,000 people do you think are affected by the inability to get a refund during the last 6 weeks or so before the festival? 

[gigpusher]

11 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

 

Not answering the question though, are you. How many of the 140,000 people do you think would pay £500 for a ticket?

I think you could sell all 140,000 for £500. I think it would make the festival a worse place in time. I also think if touts buy up tickets if they sell 80% of them at an inflated price they don't care if they don't sell 20% at all and so the atmosphere inside suffers. That's what has happened at Beyonce and Adele concerts. 

[Madyaker]

Id pay 500 quid or more. But I wouldn't like too and it wouldn't be fair as it would exclude a whole bunch of people.

[bombfrog]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

We don't have any way of knowing that do we?  I would.  Pretty sure most of my group would.  It might mean that we only do one festival, but we'd probably pay £500 instead of not going.

If £500 was the only ticket option, I think the festival could still shift it's tickets for the first year. It would be a horrible crowd with no diversity and it would fall on it's sword pretty quickly after that.

Would you pay £500?

I would, and those forum users who love the festival enough to be on here every day might if they could afford it, but outside of that bubble? Nah, My group of 12 would be down to about 2 people, and I don't think I'd go year after year if they didn't go.

Seriously, I know people on here love the festival but it's clouding the judgement here. You called me deluded earlier (thanks for that), but I seriously think it's you that is deluded.

[bombfrog]

4 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

I think you could sell all 140,000 for £500.

Wow, I love this forum but there are some crazy people here.

 

 

[majormajormajor]

53 minutes ago, Sku said:

As someone who is volunteering for the first time at the gates, checking tickets and wristbanding... I'm now slightly apprehensive after reading this thread. Hopefully I'm not faced with the situation where a photo doesn't match! 

If I was on the gate, and a black guy came through with a Chinese bloke's ticket, I'd smile knowingly and wave him though. Who cares? 

[Tranquility of Solitude]

Just now, bombfrog said:

Wow, I love this forum but there are some crazy people here.

 

 

I think there’s a very large demographic who see the festival as a bucket list thing, but haven’t been committed enough to look into the means of getting there. Any move away from the current ticketing system would immediately bring all these people into play for a year at least. 

[Madyaker]

2 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Wow, I love this forum but there are some crazy people here.

 

 

I think we need to start from the beginning. 

Do you agree that Glastonbury is a hugely popular event and demand way outstrips supply of tickets?

[priest17]

Even if touts only sell for £300 not £500, there'll be more people worse off if touting becomes allowed than people who have genuine reasons not to go. 

Its shit that someone has to lose out but I'd argue with this system people are less likely to miss out. I assume they have a decent reason for the cut off being so early in May to refund things. 

[gigpusher]

1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

Wow, I love this forum but there are some crazy people here.

 

 

No just have a better understanding of how touting works. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/rihanna-sold-out-wembley-stadium-concert-was-half-empty-touts-a7116896.html

If you can buy a ticket for £60 but can sell it for £400 then who cares if you don't sell all the tickets. You are still way up on the investment. That's why most perfectly non-crazy people see touting as a really bad idea. 

I honestly think for a couple of years at least with over a million people registered to buy tickets you would get enough people willing to buy them at over inflated prices but it wouldn't be sustainable and it would be detrimental to the festival which is why thankfully Glastonbury do what they can to prevent that happening. 

[incident]

9 minutes ago, majormajormajor said:

If I was on the gate, and a black guy came through with a Chinese bloke's ticket, I'd smile knowingly and wave him though. Who cares? 

If he turned out to be a mystery shopper, and it was as blatant as that, then you would definitely care.

[bombfrog]

15 minutes ago, Madyaker said:

I think we need to start from the beginning. 

Do you agree that Glastonbury is a hugely popular event and demand way outstrips supply of tickets?

How about we start from the beginning but I get to ask the loaded questions?

Do you you think if my wife and I save up £500 and spend it on two tickets to an event that we shouldn't be able to then sell that on to somebody else if we want to, the same way you're allowed to sell your car if you don't want it any more, or take your phone into CEX to trade it in? Does that seem fair to you?