Glastonbury Festival bans sale of Native American-style headdresses

[Filthy]

So we're ok to wear Brazilian carnival headresses? Or Fijian? Samoan? Mexican etc?

What about feather headdresses that are not native American in origin? Used for celebrations? Headgear that doesn't cause offence and is in fact welcomed by anyone and actually encouraged.

I'm glad this lad who started the petition is such an expert on the 10,000 year old history of headresses and can distinguish them all at a glance. He is the first human in world history who is able to do that. He must have dedicated his lifes work to it.

The issue here is with war bonnets. Not "headgear" or "headdresses". To chuck them all in the same pot is more ignorant and racist than the people the petition is aimed at.

Not All Headdresses.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

[The Nal]

From a very good article about the human turd hurricane that is the Gamer Gate fiasco:

"Co-opting the language and posture of grievance is how members of a privileged class express their belief that the way they live shouldn't have to change, that their opponents are hypocrites and perhaps even the real oppressors. This is how you get St. Louisans sincerely explaining that Ferguson protestors are the real racists, and how you end up with an organized group of precisely the same video game enthusiasts to whom an entire industry is catering honestly believing that they're an oppressed minority. From this kind of ideological fortification, you can stage absolutely whatever campaigns you deem necessary."

Ferguson is a little more..... erm.... black and white though. As were the LA riots etc

I've no interest in wearing one and have no issue with them being banned if they're considered offensive by native Americans.

So how does the ban work? Is there a native American consultant to differentiate between the headdresses? What is and what isn't native American?

I see a gap in the market. Can I set up a stall with my Nigerian mate and sell Nigerian feathered headdresses? They might look very similar.

[morph100]

I've heard if you go up the stone circle at night you can find people selling headdresses, flags and all sorts!

[Winslow Leach]

Not All Headdresses.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen

Ha! Why didn't I think of this?

[Justiceforcedave]

Bunch of righteous arm chair crusaders. If you cared so much about this why wait until it's been posted on the front of Efestivals before sharing your very strong opinions?

Or did you only find out about it now? In which case maybe be a little more cautious throwing words like "ignorant" around. I mean you just were just as ignorant as the rest of us last week right?

[Justiceforcedave]

...Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick though? If you could just point me in the direction of the "must ban headdresses" thread from last year then I'll take my comments back.

[5co77ie]

try the Flaming Lips thread, the Fancy Dress thread, and the younger ignorant crowd thread.

[Winslow Leach]

If you cared so much about this why wait until it's been posted on the front of Efestivals before sharing your very strong opinions?

As 5co77ie has pointed out, it's been discussed in several threads before. But even if it hadn't been discussed, that fact would be entirely irrelevant. It's being discussed now. Your argument is the 'I won't drive anywhere I've never driven before' of debating points.

[Justiceforcedave]

As 5co77ie has pointed out, it's been discussed in several threads before. But even if it hadn't been discussed, that fact would be entirely irrelevant. It's being discussed now. Your argument is the 'I won't drive anywhere I've never driven before' of debating points.

Great, then more power to you. Unfortuantely I don't think the same could be said for everyone in this thread though.

[russycarps]

Great, then more power to you. Unfortuantely I don't think the same could be said for everyone in this thread though.

You're making a tit of yourself. We've discussed this to death loads of times previously.

[Winslow Leach]

Great, then more power to you. Unfortuantely I don't think the same could be said for everyone in this thread though.

You're making a tit of yourself. We've discussed this to death loads of times previously.

And even if people haven't, so what? Maybe they only learned about this issue recently, or prefer to stick to musical discussions on these forums, or simply didn't go into the threads where it was being discussed.

Your point was staggeringly dismissive, as if you need to have things tattooed onto your forehead before you can be interested or agree with them.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Winslow Leach

[russycarps]

And even if people haven't, so what? Maybe they only learned about this issue recently, or prefer to stick to musical discussions on these forums, or simply didn't go into the threads where it was being discussed.

Your point was staggeringly dismissive, as if you need to have things tattooed onto your forehead before you can be interested or agree with them.

Fair point.

I dont know why this issue always causes people to get angry and start mocking the cause. It's really strange. Is it because it's an issue thousands of miles away? I have no idea.

Why do people get upset when told they shouldnt wear headdresses? I dont get it. It's not just "rebelling against the rules." There is more to it. Something almost sinister.

[Winslow Leach]

Fair point.

I dont know why this issue always causes people to get angry and start mocking the cause. It's really strange. Is it because it's an issue thousands of miles away? I have no idea.

Why do people get upset when told they shouldnt wear headdresses? I dont get it. It's not just "rebelling against the rules." There is more to it. Something almost sinister.

Oh I was mainly replying to Justicefordave, not you Russy. I was just quoting your post as part of the point. I agree with what you're saying.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Winslow Leach

[mr gumby]

Bunch of righteous arm chair crusaders. If you cared so much about this why wait until it's been posted on the front of Efestivals before sharing your very strong opinions?

Or did you only find out about it now? In which case maybe be a little more cautious throwing words like "ignorant" around. I mean you just were just as ignorant as the rest of us last week right?

I've known the significance of ceremonial dress in Aboriginal American culture for some 30 years. As others have said, the subject has come up several times in other threads, and this thread has started because of Glastonbury taking action on the subject. I've also spoken to a few people at the festival before who were wearing headdresses. Some have listened, some haven't.

So, I'd suggest being a little more cautious about throwing words like 'righteous arm chair crusaders' around. You may have been ignorant of this issue last week, but others weren't.

[sjseabass]

It's annoying me how often people are saying 'I don't care if it could be offensive' or 'who is it even offending' or 'what about all these other costumes / activities that could be considered offensive'.

It's not about 'offence'. It's about undermining the symbolism of an object dear to the culture of a thoroughly persecuted people. Anyone and everyone going around wearing war bonnets against the expressed wishes of that people chips away at the meaning behind it until there's nothing left. Which is just a dick move.

[Justiceforcedave]

I just don't believe that every person who has posted cares about this as fiercely as they are implying. If you do (whether you've discussed it before or have only just found out about it) then great the world would probably be a better place if there were more people like you in it.

My point is that It's easy to feign a strong opinion on the internet, the same way it's easy to "like" a video about a cause rather than actually supporting it. I guess it makes people feel better/important/less guilty, like they're doing their bit? And While I have no doubt (from the strong reaction to my post) that plenty of people do genuinely care….I suspect there are many who post and never think about it again.

Serves me right for diluting my point with what appeared to be a sweeping generalisation (maybe I should have prefixed the comment with "some of the people in this thread are…"?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Justiceforcedave

[LondonTom]

To bring up another race issue which has finally been resolved in our recent history - How many people walk around the festival dressed as Golliwogs?

I've brought this example up a couple of times on facebook since this hit the news, why people can't see it I don't know.

Sort of like wearing the faux war clothes they sell tonnes of at Glastonbury.

Camo gear?, functional clothing in a country setting ? Clothing that has changed to better suit its function every few years? Yeah exactly the same!

Bunch of righteous arm chair crusaders. If you cared so much about this why wait until it's been posted on the front of Efestivals before sharing your very strong opinions?

Or did you only find out about it now? In which case maybe be a little more cautious throwing words like "ignorant" around. I mean you just were just as ignorant as the rest of us last week right?

So what if people didn't know before? If people change their view after seeing the news of the ban, then its doing exactly what it was designed to do and giving attention to the issue? I didn't know before it hit the press with the Flaming Lips earlier in the year. Should I just ignore that its offensive now I know?

To me its simple, how much hurt is it going to cause someone to not wear a headdress compared to offending a fairly large number of people. The festival wouldn't look kindly on a stall selling or people dressing up as Nazi's or the Black and White Minstrels would they?

So yes we already do have some limits to having "fun with fancy dress"

[jeffie]

At one point army surplus was the only way I could afford waterproof clothing. What's the problem?

Appreciate if someone turned up in full military paraphernalia, but a blanket ban?

[5co77ie]

At one point army surplus was the only way I could afford waterproof clothing. What's the problem?

Appreciate if someone turned up in full military paraphernalia, but a blanket ban?

They've banned blankets now too? Is that why Joe Bananas disappeared - they saw this coming? Edited October 15, 2014 by 5co77ie

[stuartbert two hats]

They've banned blankets now too? Is that why Joe Bananas disappeared - they saw this coming?

It's political correctness gone mad!

[ICGenie]

Out of interest, has anyone ever gone up to someone wearing a war bonnet and asked them how many people they've killed? Think it could be quite an amusing way to explain the significance of what they are wearing.

[5co77ie]

Out of interest, has anyone ever gone up to someone wearing a war bonnet and asked them how many people they've killed? Think it could be quite an amusing way to explain the significance of what they are wearing.

or you could just count coup - by collecting them

[oneeye]

It's political correctness gone mad!

What next, gazebos?

[5co77ie]

does this news mean we can count out Iron Maiden, they won't be 'Running To The Tor?'

[DeanoL]

I'd rather they just asked sellers not to, or to consider the implications, rather than outright banned them. The list of banned items is rather small it seems such an odd inclusion.