Glastonbury Festival bans sale of Native American-style headdresses

[neil999]

Well for that you can blame Thomas Harris for writing Silence of the Lambs.

back to the argument of where do you stop. Do we ban all books that propogate that link ? What about if they are factual and not fictitious ?

My very first post on this alluded to a can of worms I think.

interesting point, mental illness does seem to be the last acceptable form of discrimination..so maybe this will happen? sounds ridiculous doesnt it?

well so does the idea of having the black and white minstrel show now...

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

so mocking mentally ill people is not offensive, but pretending you have earned medals for killing people is offensive?

I see.

Misconscrew

Deliberate misinterpretation of a subject; Useful tool for political speech writers to misrepresent facts; Choice to misunderstand or to created misinformation for personal motives; Creating a "strawman" in an argument to alter the truth; Misread on purpose; Take in the wrong sense deliberately.

[Size9]

Of course it's offensive. It portrays people with mental health problems as homicidal maniacs. But coming from someone who's mate went to Glastonbury dressed as an IRA terrorist I shouldn't be surprised you don't get it.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

But coming from someone who's mate went to Glastonbury dressed as an IRA terrorist I shouldn't be surprised you don't get it.

You are judging someone on the actions of one of their friends!!!! You do see how that could be ironically offensive don't you?

[Size9]

You are judging someone on the actions of one of their friends!!!! You do see how that could be ironically offensive don't you?

Judging someone on their offhand referral to a spectacularly ill-judged bit of behaviour from one of their friends seems fair enough to me.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Judging someone on their offhand referral to a spectacularly ill-judged bit of behaviour from one of their friends seems fair enough to me.

Startling hypocrisy.

[Size9]

Startling hypocrisy.

Really? I can't judge someone on their reaction to someone else's behaviour? Sorry if that seems a leap....

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I can't judge someone on their reaction to someone else's behaviour?

You can judge away, but it doesn't mean that you are right to do so. For example, how do you know that the person reacting to another persons behaviour isn't mentally ill? What 'tools' do you use to establish the facts?

Sorry if that seems a leap....

Please could you elaborate on this statement so that I can get a bit more clarity on what you are trying to say?

[Size9]

You can judge away, but it doesn't mean that you are right to do so. For example, how do you know that the person reacting to another persons behaviour isn't mentally ill? What 'tools' do you use to establish the facts?

Please could you elaborate on this statement so that I can get a bit more clarity on what you are trying to say?

I really don't have the energy. I thought that my point was clear. I disagree that the mental patient costume doesn't cause offence. I think it's obvious why it does.

Perhaps I shouldn't judge people on the behaviour of their friends but I did in this case as I found it astonishing the way it had been remarked that his friend dressed up as a terrorist without condemning it as appalling.

I can't go much further than that. You're clearly spoiling for a scrap and I'm not.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I really don't have the energy. I thought that my point was clear. I disagree that the mental patient costume doesn't cause offence. I think it's obvious why it does.

Perhaps I shouldn't judge people on the behaviour of their friends but I did in this case as I found it astonishing the way it had been remarked that his friend dressed up as a terrorist without condemning it as appalling.

I can't go much further than that. You're clearly spoiling for a scrap and I'm not.

My intention was to have a reasoned discussion. I was, admittedly, of the impression that you also wanted to do this because of your continued posts.

One of my own friends has also dressed up as a terrorist for a fancy dress party. I wouldn't condemn him for doing so. One of the reasons for this is that he is a doctor who saves and extends peoples lives, rather than snuffs them out.

As for myself I have for over a decade daily had to take the highest dose prescribed of the anti depressant Venlafaxine. More importantly than this though is that I also have to take the antipsychotic Aripiprazole daily. This is to stop me talking to people who, apparently, don't exist. Unless you suffer from the same ailments or worse than me then I believe that I have more right to be offended in this instance than you. However, I am not offended. Why not - because I can take a joke when there is no intention behind it to offend. I suspect that the vast majority of my fellow mental illness sufferers haven't had a successful humour by pass operation that would guide them to take your stance as opposed to mine. But then again I'm mad, so could be wrong. lol

[Size9]

Fair enough. A very well reasoned post.

I don't suffer myself but my dad did and my wife does so I speak from a position of understanding. I agreed when MIND spoke out about this issue last Halloween and still agree. I appreciate that you are balanced enough to laugh at this but I think it does nothing to reduce the stigma that is still attached to mental illness.

I still don't agree with the terrorist fancy dress though! It might be okay at a private party amongst friends when you all know each other but I still think it's too much at a huge gathering of people. The IRA thing really stuck with me though as I have family in Belfast and surely anyone born before 1990 can't have failed to have been affected by those troubles. It's very recent history!

Anyway. I promise you I'm a pretty laid back fella, these issues just wound me up.

Time for a beer I think!

[frostypaw]

Isn't this all just context and ignorance?

In context all sorts of fancy dress is acceptable that would be wildly offensive in the general public - think of the nonsense that an Indiana Jones themed party could ignite.

But these are things we know are bad, this is a joke we're in on - whereas the headdresses are an issue of general ignorance and watching them touted around on some pretty girls as fashionable expression of freedom is just a kick in the teeth. It's not even pretending to be part of that culture or at least how they imagine it, it's just nicking something and going yah, that's pretty

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Fair enough. A very well reasoned post.

I don't suffer myself but my dad did and my wife does so I speak from a position of understanding. I agreed when MIND spoke out about this issue last Halloween and still agree. I appreciate that you are balanced enough to laugh at this but I think it does nothing to reduce the stigma that is still attached to mental illness.

I still don't agree with the terrorist fancy dress though! It might be okay at a private party amongst friends when you all know each other but I still think it's too much at a huge gathering of people. The IRA thing really stuck with me though as I have family in Belfast and surely anyone born before 1990 can't have failed to have been affected by those troubles. It's very recent history!

Anyway. I promise you I'm a pretty laid back fella, these issues just wound me up.

Time for a beer I think!

Apologies, as I guess this subject winds me up a little too.

Having worked (professionally) in tangent with MIND, Mencap, Rahtbone and a few other charities from 1997 to April 2014 I could say that they'd be better placed getting their own house in order before speaking out nationally. However, that's just a politics game and I too can't be bothered getting into all that.

As to the IRA thing I do get your point. My parents are Irish and they went through hell when the IRA blew up the Rotunda in Birmingham where we live. Where my dad worked a mob formed and broke the arms and legs of one Irishman who worked there. They then marched over to where my dad was working to do the same to him. Fortunately for my dad an enormous black bloke stepped in front of them with a large spanner in his hand and said if you want him you've got to come through me first. The mob then dispersed and went away. So, I know how touchy people can be on this subject. So yeah, on reflection maybe you are right on that bit of fancy dress being a little too 'close to the bone' for acceptability. As an aside, I wonder how he managed to identify that he was from the IRA and not a Northern Irish Protestant terrorist?

I guess my main argument is where do you draw the line and who dictates that it should be drawn where it is? There's loads of differing fancy dress outfits on the market representing different people and professions. Do we ban them all on the strength that they may upset a minority of people? I don't have an answer, I'm just putting it out there.