Bob Vylan Chants

[philipsteak]

47 minutes ago, BobMahelp said:

“Jewish and Muslim Palestinians” what on earth are you talking about?

Don't want to speak for @SheffJeff here but I assume he meant Jews and Muslims who lived in Palestine.

Seems fairly self explanatory.

[Superscally]

5 hours ago, gizmoman said:

The law used is "inciting racial hatred" it's sufficiently vague to be used in this case if you can define the IDF as a different ethnic/religious group. Not difficult when they are one of the sides in what is seen as a religious war. 

 

There's more than enough in here to suggest "kill the IDF" could be incitement to racial hatred.  

 

Public order act 1986 Pt3

 

(1)A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if—

(a)he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or

(b)having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.

 

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

 

 

I disagree. The people who are likely to be anti-semitic, are the ones who are currently pro-semitic as a veil to justify their greater hatred of Muslims and would soon become anti-semitic if they got rid of said Muslims as they wouldn't have anyone else to blame for societies ills. No-one at that Bob Vylan gig, including Bobby himself seriously walked away thinking of doing harm to Jews as a whole, or innocent Israelis living in peace. I will include a huge chunk of the IDF in that, due to the obligatory service aspect, but like we'd have probably been happy if someone had popped off Hitler in WW2, I don't think anyone would be sad if a major head of the IDF got bumped. That's not racial hatred though. That's hatred of hate.

[BobMahelp]

26 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Don't want to speak for @SheffJeff here but I assume he meant Jews and Muslims who lived in Palestine.

Seems fairly self explanatory.

I thought Palestine was a Muslim country? 

[GarethGG]

BV’s comments are almost a sideshow.

 

The Kneecap chaps alleged comments about starting a riot, if as reported, are legally far more serious.

 

He could be in a lot of trouble given sentencing guidelines and recent charging decisions and cases.

 

Be <insert Alanis song title here> if his oppo gets the expected slap on the wrist and he gets a three stretch.

[SheffJeff]

1 hour ago, BobMahelp said:

I thought Palestine was a Muslim country? 

 

I wrote a long, boring reply but realised this is a thread about Bob Vylan and not Palestine.  Have a read if you want, don't if you don't... couldn't give a sh*t really and doubt it'll change your mind on any of it anyway.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

[philipsteak]

2 hours ago, BobMahelp said:

I thought Palestine was a Muslim country? 

 

Oh dear

[DeanoL]

9 hours ago, xxialac said:

I can't prove it but we have all lived through times of political unrest and remember the long sentences people got.

 

I'm quite keen not to live in a country on the brink of chaos so if the sentences act as a deterrent I'm all for it.

 

 

I don't think it does act as a deterrent though. Consider a time of unrest with riots happening on the street. You're an angry person at home. You know that if you post angrily on the internet, you're fare more likely to be arrested and charged than if you just put on a mask and go smash some windows. What behaviour does that incentivise?

 

While "keyboard warriors" might well be a problem, I'd take a society full of those against a society full of people actually rioting any day.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

You know that if you post angrily on the internet, you're far more likely to be arrested and charged than if you just put on a mask and go smash some windows.

Of all the stupid things I have ever read…

[elias]

The BBC website had a headline about the Bob Vylan chants. Right next to it was a report that 20 people had been killed in an attack on a coffee shop in Gaza.
One of these is provoking more anger than the other. Unfortunately it's the wrong one.

[Physical_graffiti]

logging in for the first time post-fest, haven't read the thread so far. What a set of legends Bob Vylan are. chanting "Death, death to the IDF" is the moral thing to do, as they are a group that murders babies and children on purpose (no difference from someone saying for example 'death to isis'). I joined in wholeheartedly and proudly. What a gig and what a festival btw

[Physical_graffiti]

1 hour ago, GarethGG said:

 

 

The Kneecap chaps alleged comments about starting a riot, if as reported, are legally far more serious.

 

.

don't believe everything you read. Did the newspapers report where he said something like "for clarity, obviously don't go starting riots"?

[steviewevie]

Anyway, Trump the ultimate punk is sorting it 

[xxialac]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway, Trump the ultimate punk is sorting it 

Exactly and he has never broken a pledge in either of his two terms so we can all relax.

[Blisterpack]

37 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

logging in for the first time post-fest, haven't read the thread so far. What a set of legends Bob Vylan are. chanting "Death, death to the IDF" is the moral thing to do, as they are a group that murders babies and children on purpose (no difference from someone saying for example 'death to isis'). I joined in wholeheartedly and proudly. What a gig and what a festival btw

There was somebody on earlier in the thread who gave a very insightful representation of the perspective from an Israeli citizen. Their partner and other relatives have served or are serving in the IDF. National service is part of Israeli life. Somehow I have a feeling that there are some who would ‘proudly’ chant that comment in their face. 

[balti-pie]

National service is such a thoroughly insane concept. Everyone must learn to shoot and kill upon command! It’s a prerequisite of citizenship! 
 

absolutely f**king not for me, thanks. I’d take the three months in prison for not doing it. It’s absolutely monstrous. 

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Exactly and he has never broken a pledge in either of his two terms so we can all relax.

He's broken lots of sh*t. Top punk.

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

There was somebody on earlier in the thread who gave a very insightful representation of the perspective from an Israeli citizen. Their partner and other relatives have served or are serving in the IDF. National service is part of Israeli life. Somehow I have a feeling that there are some who would ‘proudly’ chant that comment in their face. 

Today’s prize for whataboutery goes to…

[Physical_graffiti]

1 minute ago, Blisterpack said:

There was somebody on earlier in the thread who gave a very insightful representation of the perspective from an Israeli citizen. Their partner and other relatives have served or are serving in the IDF. National service is part of Israeli life. Somehow I have a feeling that there are some who would ‘proudly’ chant that comment in their face. 

Yeah, the Wermacht conscripted too, but our collective beef with them is obviously not against individuals conscripted. When i chanted "death, death to the IDF" proudly with Bobbie V, I was saying death to an institution that murders babies. Like I said, the only moral position.

Btw, if I was in Israel I would choose to not murder babies, and go to jail instead.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

Of all the stupid things I have ever read…

And yet you can't explain why. Funny that. Almost like you're not as smart as you think you are.

[DeanoL]

9 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

There was somebody on earlier in the thread who gave a very insightful representation of the perspective from an Israeli citizen. Their partner and other relatives have served or are serving in the IDF. National service is part of Israeli life. Somehow I have a feeling that there are some who would ‘proudly’ chant that comment in their face. 

But don't you think you have a moral duty to conscientiously object if as part of that service you are asked to commit atrocities? We long ago established that "just following orders" was not a valid excuse. 

 

Yes, lots of people's friends and family will be in the IDF because of national service. Maybe, as ridiculous as this sounds, they shouldn't be? Maybe if that poster's partner had been there it might have served as a wake-up call? A clear signal that they're on the wrong side of history. Or put another way, an "are we the baddies?" moment. That maybe they need to speak to those friends and family and figure out a way for them to safely desert before they end up involved in taking actions that will haunt them for the rest of their lives?

[xxialac]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And yet you can't explain why. Funny that. Almost like you're not as smart as you think you are.

And you are being deliberately sly, trying to imply that our judiciary generally hands out harsher sentences to people sending hostile tweets than to those committing violence.

 

Look up the prison sentences of the Rotherham rioters. Some were at the lower end of the violent spectrum but still got stiff sentences. And for the 50th time, Connolly’s words were at the highest end of the “inciting violence” spectrum.

 

Edited July 2, 2025 by xxialac

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But don't you think you have a moral duty to conscientiously object if as part of that service you are asked to commit atrocities? We long ago established that "just following orders" was not a valid excuse. 

 

Yes, lots of people's friends and family will be in the IDF because of national service. Maybe, as ridiculous as this sounds, they shouldn't be? Maybe if that poster's partner had been there it might have served as a wake-up call? A clear signal that they're on the wrong side of history. Or put another way, an "are we the baddies?" moment. That maybe they need to speak to those friends and family and figure out a way for them to safely desert before they end up involved in taking actions that will haunt them for the rest of their lives?

Watch the panorama episode from the Nova festival. Thousands of young people, similar to those at Glastonbury, praying for the IDF to arrive as Hamas roam the site looking for people to kill or kidnap. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 hour ago, elias said:

The BBC website had a headline about the Bob Vylan chants. Right next to it was a report that 20 people had been killed in an attack on a coffee shop in Gaza.
One of these is provoking more anger than the other. Unfortunately it's the wrong one.

I posted something similar yesterday. That’s some strange editorial priority from the public service broadcaster. A chant at a festival warrants the headline over the murder of innocents including an artist and a photographer. Some in The media seem scared to criticise the attacks on these civilians 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Watch the panorama episode from the Nova festival. Thousands of young people, similar to those at Glastonbury, praying for the IDF to arrive as Hamas roam the site looking for people to kill or kidnap. 

Huh? This time literally pre-dates the near total destruction of Gaza and what many would agree is now genocide against Palestinian people.

 

Can you really not see that the soul searching should come after such crimes not before them?

 

And again, no one is disputing the absolute horror of the Nova and other attacks that day by Hamas.

[gizmoman]

3 hours ago, Superscally said:

I disagree. The people who are likely to be anti-semitic, are the ones who are currently pro-semitic as a veil to justify their greater hatred of Muslims and would soon become anti-semitic if they got rid of said Muslims as they wouldn't have anyone else to blame for societies ills. No-one at that Bob Vylan gig, including Bobby himself seriously walked away thinking of doing harm to Jews as a whole, or innocent Israelis living in peace. I will include a huge chunk of the IDF in that, due to the obligatory service aspect, but like we'd have probably been happy if someone had popped off Hitler in WW2, I don't think anyone would be sad if a major head of the IDF got bumped. That's not racial hatred though. That's hatred of hate.

Oh 100%, I was playing devils advocate there, the newspapers were full of "anti-semitic " and "hate speech" not to mention outright lies,

In this environment there could be some wanting to use the existing law to prosecute them even though IMO it would not be justified. Just takes a bit of creativity on the lawyers side.