Kneecap

[CaledonianGonzo]

5 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

What would you have considered a proportionate response to the the Nova festival /October 7 attack? 

 

For a start I wouldn't take it out of its context like you've just done.

[zahidf]

They were just saying most of this stuff to be edgelords ( the MP and Hamas stuff). The pro Palestine stuff is sincere, but if you're going to act like an edgelord, don't be surprised at other people's reaction

[TheDayman]

16 minutes ago, hjwright said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but war isn't proportional. It's not something that exists to be fair and fought with equal blows. 

Actually, responses in war do need to be proportional. I refer you to international humanitarian law.

You might also want to look up what constitutes ethnic cleansing and genocide.

[hjwright]

1 minute ago, TheDayman said:

Actually, responses in war do need to be proportional. I refer you to international humanitarian law.

You might also want to look up what constitutes ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

Not true, and i'm not debating it with somebody who is wrong.

 

Acts of war have no requirement to be proportional to what the other side is doing. War would never end if they did. 

[Wooderson]

Great to see them get under establishment skins. Truth hurts.

[kaosmark2]

Just another reminder to keep things civil. We're trying to err on the side of allowing discussion but it's (understandably) getting a bit tetchy. 

 

The thread is staying on pre-moderated content for now, and posts that blur the lines will probably get delayed to be checked by 2-3 moderators whether or not they get eventually allowed.

[TheDayman]

3 minutes ago, hjwright said:

 

Not true, and i'm not debating it with somebody who is wrong.

 

Acts of war have no requirement to be proportional to what the other side is doing. War would never end if they did. 

"International law does not authorise States to use armed force except in cases of self-defence or aggression. The branch of international law governing the right to use armed force is commonly referred to as jus ad bellum . Since 1945, it has been enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and its collective security mechanism. The concept of self-defence allows only military measures that are “proportionate” to the attack and necessary to respond to it."

Some reading for you: https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/proportionality/

[Nobby's Old Boots]

18 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

It's gaslighting - you're trying to separate Kneecaps' comments on stage from the reasons that drove them to say them.

It also must be noted that you've avoided commenting on the why, which again is what causes frustration.

Plenty on the pro-Palestine, in fact, probably better described now as anti-Gaza genocide, have called out Kneecap for what they've said. However, it seemingly never goes the other way around. A simple "what Kneecap did was wrong (to whatever degree you want to weight it) but I also recognise the devastation inflicted in Gaza by the IDF that has triggered their comments" seems too much to ask. I find absolutely crazy given the situation.
 

I literally did say that but keep picking and choosing to suit your narrative I guess. Seems the truth is quite far down in terms of priorities, wonder where Kneecap get the idea from.

[TheDayman]

21 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I literally did say that but keep picking and choosing to suit your narrative I guess. Seems the truth is quite far down in terms of priorities, wonder where Kneecap get the idea from.

If you've said that, I'll be the first one to put my hands up and apologise.

However, I don't recall any post where you've explicitly called out the IDF/Israel or recognised it as a reason as to why Kneecap have said the things they have said.

As I said though, happy to be corrected.

Edited April 29, 2025 by TheDayman

[Nobby's Old Boots]

6 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

If you've said that, I'll be the first one to put my hands up and apologise.

However, I don't recall any post where you've explicitly called out the IDF/Israel or recognised it as a reason as to why Kneecap have said the things they have said.

As I said though, happy to be corrected.

I have called out the IDF and Israeli government. I'm not getting dragged into this further or getting into pointless semantics about wording - I made the point clearly.

I don't want/need/care about an apology. I'm done in this thread.

Edited April 29, 2025 by Nobby's Old Boots

[Nathan Explosion]

40 minutes ago, hjwright said:

See when I get carried away I might call a bloke in the pub a c**t. 

 

I'm not sure supporting a terrorist organisation is really "getting carried away"

 

You're just proving my point. They're not "supporting a terrorist organisation". They made a one off (very) ill advised comment, which they've now walked back and apologised for. You're playing into the intentionally provocative media narrative by characterising that as the band being terrorist supporters.

[TheDayman]

As it's been mentioned a few times here, and again, conscious not to stray too far away from the topic, I noticed Louis's documentary is available here - https://xcancel.com/SuppressedNws/status/1916783488629456896#m

[SouthbanKen]

1 hour ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Glaslighting? Man alive. Give it a rest.

 

Wanted to see if anyone would offer any explanation for why they're claiming they're being misrepresented or why people are seemingly accepting an apology that contains an out and out lie but clearly no one is able to do that so that speaks volumes.

I’d say @Physical_graffiti has just given you a very clear and erudite explanation. 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

As it's been mentioned a few times here, and again, conscious not to stray too far away from the topic, I noticed Louis's documentary is available here - https://xcancel.com/SuppressedNws/status/1916783488629456896#m

also iplayer

[steviewevie]

Jo Cox: Husband of murdered MP calls on Kneecap to give 'real apology'

[SouthbanKen]

1 hour ago, Blisterpack said:

What would you have considered a proportionate response to the the Nova festival /October 7 attack? 

proportionate literally means “corresponding in size to something else”. 
 

1200 innocent people died on Oct 7. 
250 were abducted.
Another thousand (approx) were injured. 
 

A proportional response would have been a conflict that caused a similar level of death. The actual response has seen 

 

50,000 killed

1.5 million people displaced. 
 

The response from Israel is in now way proportionate. 

 

 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

2 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

I support Israel’s absolute right to exist and to defend itself. As do the majority in this country. I also believe Netanyahu is the worst kind of opportunistic crook politician who is making successive bad political judgements. I also believe that anybody even joking about support for Hezbollah/Hamas - who have a constitutional commitment to destroy Jews, not just Israel (home to half the world’s Jews) - runs the risk of being seen as antisemitic. 
Do you think I am wrong to believe that? 

 

Do you believe in a Palestinians right to defend themselves?

[Colorblindjames]

43 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I have called out the IDF and Israeli government. I'm not getting dragged into this further or getting into pointless semantics about wording - I made the point clearly.

I don't want/need/care about an apology. I'm done in this thread.

 

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Jo Cox: Husband of murdered MP calls on Kneecap to give 'real apology'

Bobby you’ve threatened to leave this discussion about 5 times now.

 

What’s a real apology. 

[Colorblindjames]

 

[Blisterpack]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Jo Cox: Husband of murdered MP calls on Kneecap to give 'real apology'

Very good response. About as non-judgmental you can get when he could be forgiven for being bitter towards them. 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

 

Bobby you’ve threatened to leave this discussion about 5 times now.

 

What’s a real apology. 

Don't know, why not ask the husband who's MP wife was killed.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

30 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

I’d say @Physical_graffiti has just given you a very clear and erudite explanation. 

Their post was between me writing and submitting the post you quoted and it being approved/posted.

[Blisterpack]

14 minutes ago, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

Do you believe in a Palestinians right to defend themselves?

I believe in the right of Palestinians to have a recognised state alongside that of Israel. And to then have the right to defend it, yes. All legitimate states have the right to self defence. It makes the failure of the Oslo accords so regrettable. 

[Colorblindjames]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Don't know, why not ask the husband who's MP wife was killed.

Seems like a real apology to me. 
 

Kneecap are entirely correct to point out the context behind the debate however. 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

10 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I believe in the right of Palestinians to have a recognised state alongside that of Israel. And to then have the right to defend it, yes. All legitimate states have the right to self defence. It makes the failure of the Oslo accords so regrettable. 

 

You've answered the question you wanted to answer, not the question I asked.

Edited April 29, 2025 by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs