Kneecap

[kirkwood]

Looks like their Plymouth gig has had the plug pulled already

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 hours ago, steviewevie said:

It's been going on since 720 BC.

 

The idea that this is an ancient, intractable battle of ideas and ethics between two religions and not a recent-ish late 20th century fight over land is an Israeli hasbara construct that seeks to make archeology and ancient books more important than the lived daily reality of the actual occupants of the land.

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

Of course it’s a war. Israel has been under attack since 1948 and the enemy has come in various forms. They absolutely need the military they have. I have asked before what you think Israel should be doing given that you have so many views on what they shouldn’t be doing. 

 

I'll give you one example (cos I'm not actually sure you're on this site in good faith given I dunno if I've actually seen you use this forum to discuss Glastonbury festival except when this subject rears up):

 

They should grant the Palestinian's the Right of Return:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

 

Given that this is the obvious progressive position (and covered by International Law to boot) it shouldn't be an issue for a country of progressive people, like you said they were.

 

[The Nal]

17 hours ago, Mordy1990 said:

What's the general consensus - does it seem more likely or unlikely that they'll be performing at Glastonbury 2025?

 

Glasto will bin them. And rightly so. Not surprising  when theyre calling for MPs to be killed. No context can justify that. Only just saw the clip this morning. Morons.

[rwhitehouse13]

15 hours ago, Dark Star said:

 

Tory/Reform central. No surprise sadly.

We currently have a Labour MP here so this isn’t strictly accurate.

[kerplunk]

Hi folks, just approved 3 posts from overnight, but there's a lot more that are diverging into the history of the conflict, jewish history, the rules of enagagement in war, proportionality etc that I've left unapproved for now while I write this post. It's somewhat inevitable of course, but it creates a dilemna for us - should we allow the thread to continue to broaden in scope such that the original reason for the thread is no longer the main feature, or be more restrictive in order to keep the thread to the original story? Just sayin -for now

[kerplunk]

4 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I'll give you one example (cos I'm not actually sure you're on this site in good faith given I dunno if I've actually seen you use this forum to discuss Glastonbury festival except when this subject rears up):

 

 

 

 

Given you 'dunno' don't be making these sort of bad faith arguments towards other users please.

 

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, kerplunk said:

 

 

Given you 'dunno' don't be making these sort of bad faith arguments towards other users please.

 

 

 

Sure

[Skip997]

11 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

Because some people don’t like having Jews for neighbours. Not just in be Middle East either: common all over the world. 

See my post a couple up from this for an alternative view 

[fraybentos1]

10 hours ago, kirkwood said:

Looks like their Plymouth gig has had the plug pulled already

where have you seen that?

[steviewevie]

5 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

The idea that this is an ancient, intractable battle of ideas and ethics between two religions and not a recent-ish late 20th century fight over land is an Israeli hasbara construct that seeks to make archeology and ancient books more important than the lived daily reality of the actual occupants of the land.

err...ok. 

It all started in 1967 then. Or 1948. Or 1917. Or maybe Oct 7 2023. 

 

[fraybentos1]

11 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

Because some people don’t like having Jews for neighbours. Not just in be Middle East either: common all over the world. 

While it's obviously true that Jews have experienced Anti semitism for centuries, when you're talking about Israeli settlements in occupied territories it's hardly a normal neighbourly relationship is it? It's literally illegal.

[CaledonianGonzo]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

err...ok. 

It all started in 1967 then. Or 1948. Or 1917. Or maybe Oct 7 2023. 

 

 

Yes OK.  The intent is to give a veneer of complexity to the situation that it really doesn't warrant.  If folk think they need to understand 1000s of years of history and internecine regional squabbles to get a handle on what's happening today then they're likely to switch off and move on.

[steviewevie]

Anyway, it is obviously massively one sided, and Israel is led by a government full of extremists with a prime minister who cares for nothing except his own political survival, and they are obviously committing war crimes and crimes against humanity and eventually will be officially called genocide by ICJ or whatever they're called...but Hamas are also barbaric c**ts who also now seem to care only about their own survival, and the people of Gaza deserve better. It needs an intervention, but no one wants to go near it.

[Jacko45]

It's weird, seemingly people cannot seperate their comments/views on Palestine from the comments that are actually causing all the controversy. 

 

You can't say things like "Kill Your MP" in their position and expect no reprecussions. 

[shuttlep]

agree or disagree with Knee Cap

 

 

They have us all talking and debating .

 

maybe job done for them.

[Crazyfool01]

35 minutes ago, kerplunk said:

Hi folks, just approved 3 posts from overnight, but there's a lot more that are diverging into the history of the conflict, jewish history, the rules of enagagement in war, proportionality etc that I've left unapproved for now while I write this post. It's somewhat inevitable of course, but it creates a dilemna for us - should we allow the thread to continue to broaden in scope such that the original reason for the thread is no longer the main feature, or be more restrictive in order to keep the thread to the original story? Just sayin -for now

Just a reminder of this please . I know some may have missed it in quite a fast flowing thread . Thanks all 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, shuttlep said:

agree or disagree with Knee Cap

 

 

They have us all talking and debating .

 

maybe job done for them.

no such thing as bad publicity...unless you get totally cancelled and start facing criminal convictions...

[MilkyJoe]

Bringing it back on topic…A nice write up on a bit of history of the band here.
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly5r4gg7l6o

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

Bringing it back on topic…A nice write up on a bit of history of the band here.
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly5r4gg7l6o

are any of the knee cap loyalists in here able to tell me exactly how you square this circle? Presumably we are just meant to shrug and say they obv weren't being serious? bit of a cop out 

 

In one, the band allegedly call for the death of Conservative MPs. Another seems to show a band member shouting "up Hamas, up Hezbollah". Both groups are banned in the UK and it is a crime to express support for them.

Kneecap have responded with a statement, saying they "do not, and have never, supported Hamas or Hezbollah".

 

 

[Blisterpack]

5 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I'll give you one example (cos I'm not actually sure you're on this site in good faith given I dunno if I've actually seen you use this forum to discuss Glastonbury festival except when this subject rears up):

 

They should grant the Palestinian's the Right of Return

Been on here for years, been going to Glastonbury for decades, talk about it here and elsewhere often. I am as passionate about this as you. 
on Right to Return, surely even you can see the problem with allowing 5 million people who have literally never stepped foot in Israel, Gaza or West Bank to move in there. The world clearly needs a better solution than that. Given that it was as much the role played by Egypt and Jordan in removing the Arabs in the first place then I am surprised you don’t question why they won’t allow these descendants of the originally displaced to go there…. 

[Little Andy]

Did Kneecap actually say 'Up Hamas' at some point? When? Even if some people are arguing they didn't mean it seriously, it seems a crazy thing to say for a band in support of Palestinian rights. If my knowledge is correct, Hamas not only terrorise Israeli citizens, but Palestinians as well (hence the huge recent anti-Hamas protests in Gaza continuing, despite Hamas murdering some of the protesters).

If I've understood all this correctly, this is why I won't be surprised if Glastonbury don't let Kneecap play. I'm not sure how many in this thread attended last year's Left Field 'Israel Palestine: Hope and Solidarity' debate, but I understood the panel to be very for peace for all peaceful Palestinians and Israelis against the atrocities of both the Israeli Government and Hamas.

[Blisterpack]

26 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

While it's obviously true that Jews have experienced Anti semitism for centuries, when you're talking about Israeli settlements in occupied territories it's hardly a normal neighbourly relationship is it? It's literally illegal.

Point taken

[Physical_graffiti]

13 minutes ago, Jacko45 said:

It's weird, seemingly people cannot seperate their comments/views on Palestine from the comments that are actually causing all the controversy. 

 

You can't say things like "Kill Your MP" in their position and expect no reprecussions. 

I think with anything, context is key. They said it on stage at a gig, they didn't call a press conference in Westminster to announce a call to arms. Printed in the daily mail in the cold light of day it looks very dodgy of course, but absolutely no one, zero percent of people at that gig, took it literally, they just saw it as a funny/violent/edgy thing to say at a gig.

[Mand3]

54 minutes ago, rwhitehouse13 said:

We currently have a Labour MP here so this isn’t strictly accurate.

It's mostly accurate, I remember the sea of blue 🙄. And there is a lot of reformers. Fishing and Farming drove the Brexit vote.