Have child wagons got too big/ popular?

[Old_Johno]

Having just got back from a lovely Shambala, can we have a discussion about child wagons? I know anything related to parenting gets peoples hackles up (don’t get me started on kids not wearing hearing protection) but I’m genuinely curious to see what people think about it. 

There used to be the odd one, maybe a few prams, but generally children were carried or free range, but now it seems everyone has an 8ft long metal charriot for moving their little ones around in.

Some people even went so far as to ‘wall off’ a section of the main stage crowd to defend their picnic blankets, during Saturday nights headliners. It was like a scene out of an old western movie where they made a wagon circle to fight off some rival gang. 

I love seeing kids having a good time at festivals, and I don’t want this to be an anti child rant, but perhaps it’s time for a bit of an étiqueté guide or a max size? No wagons past a certain point?

Even fairy lights as a minimum would be a good start to stop people walking into abandoned black metal boxy ones in the middle of the night.

[Skip997]

There were some monstrous wagons at Shambala this year.

Thankfully I didn't witness any "circling of the wagons" in order to protect blankets, in fact outside of the closing ceremony I didn't see a single blanket being used at a stage. Mind you I always go down the front at Shambala as it's so easy.

[stuie]

I don't have kids or have any opinion on this really, but I can honestly say this isn't something that's upset me or caused any problems for me at all so I don't see the issue really!

 

[Old_Johno]

36 minutes ago, stuie said:

I don't have kids or have any opinion on this really, but I can honestly say this isn't something that's upset me or caused any problems for me at all so I don't see the issue really!

 

The amount of fuss people make on here about chairs, flags, picnic blankets and other minor inconveniences you’d think transporting a 1ft human in a 8ft wagon would be considered selfish, but apparently that’s where the line is. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

Love seeing them and the work that goes into making and lighting/decorating them. And they seem to be incredibly comfortable! 

[Skip997]

12 minutes ago, Old_Johno said:

The amount of fuss people make on here about chairs, flags, picnic blankets and other minor inconveniences you’d think transporting a 1ft human in a 8ft wagon would be considered selfish, but apparently that’s where the line is. 

I've just done back to back Beautiful Days and Shambala. It was an absolute joy to see zero flags at stages during either.

There were a few creative things on poles at Shambala, but not large enough to block the view and a 1000 times better looking and more creative than the generic not funny crap that appears in front of the Pyramid stage.

There was a massive issue at BD with a huge wall of chairs about a dozen deep which almost completely blocked access to the main stage.

[germanmon]

Hmmm, in two minds about this one. I'm not a parent - to me, they look like far too much hassle hauling something that big around, but I do understand that in the grand scheme of things it's probably easier all round than worrying too much about tired and grumpy kids when you can have them tucked up all cosy in one of those wagons.

I find them easy enough to generally navigate around when I'm out and about, so no complaints there. However where I did see a problem with them was at Wilderness - parents dragging them through and around in the dark, pushing through towards the front of the Chems crowd to the disgruntlement of lots of other folks. Either the kids were already asleep (but clearly wouldn't be for long), or they were really restless and trying to get in/out repeatedly. Can't have been a great experience for them, but also wasn't for the people that were still trying to find a place only to find the 'gap' they thought they saw was filled by a couple of trollies. 

Not meant as an anti kid rant as I also love seeing them experience festivals, but more just a general 'wish there was a bit more consideration' post...

[Neil]

i took my kid to many glastonbury's thru his youngest years, and we managed without a trolley, don't even remember using a pushchair, mostly he walked (they were two very muddy years too), or was carried in a backpack thingie. the backpack thingie was good cos there was no chance of losing him, and he was very safe and a high-up view made the crowds less scarey.

[Skip997]

24 minutes ago, Neil said:

i took my kid to many glastonbury's thru his youngest years, and we managed without a trolley, don't even remember using a pushchair, mostly he walked (they were two very muddy years too), or was carried in a backpack thingie. the backpack thingie was good cos there was no chance of losing him, and he was very safe and a high-up view made the crowds less scarey.

Proper old school

Good on you

[gfa]

Not sure if this was only aimed at Shambhala but its in the glasto forum - i never had an issue with them this year

barely was at the pyramid though so thats probably why!

[Bike_Like_A_Mum]

Yes! Wish I could do a voice note to try and get my point of view across on this for fear of sounding judgy. But I would just love to destroy this myth that they are "ESSENTIAL" because they really aren't!  They're huge, I'm a parent. Done lots of festivals with the kids and took them to the big G for the first time this year. They carried their own rucksacks with a little telescopic stool in each they could sit down on if they needed a rest.  In my opinion if you can make do without taking a house on wheels to the zoo or any other day out then you don't need one at glastonbury. Children who don't use buggies any more, suddenly being pulled around in these things?! We used one once when my two were tiny at Latitude but it was more hassle than it was worth. If you're taking children to Glastonbury or any other festival you have to be prepared to compromise on your experience, if your child needs a safe space for a rest...why the hell would you bowl into a crowd with them?! Like any other day out, if they're over-stimulated you find a quiet area for a sit down/snack/rest. 

However, as much as I wouldn't use one. It's not the carts themselves that bother me - hey, if you wanna do the equivalent of a marathon pulling one of those laden with twice your body weight over rough terrain then that's up to you! But it's the behaviour/attitude/entitleness that "sometimes" goes with it that's the problem. Some people are sensible with them and stick to the quiet paths and the back. But some people have the attitude that others around them should move out the way. At the end of the day, all festivals should be a team effort where everyone looks after each other, you're pulling a massive hazard into that space. Don't get aggy when people trip up over you...you've just potentially hurt them! You apologise. 

But that's the reason this year was my last ever latitude. Because all of this is off the charts. A 40,000 festival and there were hundreds of people who had blocked off their areas. I came across one line of 20 chairs who weren't letting anyone past. Absolute nob heads, I climbed over them in the end and told them about themselves. Imagine if there was a crush or incident up front and they needed to get people out, the arena was PACKED it would have been impossible this year. So, so horrifically bad, never seen anything like it. So, chairs, picnic Blankets, trolleys are all something that needs to be kept an eye on for health and safety reasons in my opinion.

[Old_Johno]

1 hour ago, Bike_Like_A_Mum said:

Yes! Wish I could do a voice note to try and get my point of view across on this for fear of sounding judgy. But I would just love to destroy this myth that they are "ESSENTIAL" because they really aren't!  They're huge, I'm a parent. Done lots of festivals with the kids and took them to the big G for the first time this year. They carried their own rucksacks with a little telescopic stool in each they could sit down on if they needed a rest.  In my opinion if you can make do without taking a house on wheels to the zoo or any other day out then you don't need one at glastonbury. Children who don't use buggies any more, suddenly being pulled around in these things?! We used one once when my two were tiny at Latitude but it was more hassle than it was worth. If you're taking children to Glastonbury or any other festival you have to be prepared to compromise on your experience, if your child needs a safe space for a rest...why the hell would you bowl into a crowd with them?! Like any other day out, if they're over-stimulated you find a quiet area for a sit down/snack/rest. 

However, as much as I wouldn't use one. It's not the carts themselves that bother me - hey, if you wanna do the equivalent of a marathon pulling one of those laden with twice your body weight over rough terrain then that's up to you! But it's the behaviour/attitude/entitleness that "sometimes" goes with it that's the problem. Some people are sensible with them and stick to the quiet paths and the back. But some people have the attitude that others around them should move out the way. At the end of the day, all festivals should be a team effort where everyone looks after each other, you're pulling a massive hazard into that space. Don't get aggy when people trip up over you...you've just potentially hurt them! You apologise. 

But that's the reason this year was my last ever latitude. Because all of this is off the charts. A 40,000 festival and there were hundreds of people who had blocked off their areas. I came across one line of 20 chairs who weren't letting anyone past. Absolute nob heads, I climbed over them in the end and told them about themselves. Imagine if there was a crush or incident up front and they needed to get people out, the arena was PACKED it would have been impossible this year. So, so horrifically bad, never seen anything like it. So, chairs, picnic Blankets, trolleys are all something that needs to be kept an eye on for health and safety reasons in my opinion.

I think this is a good summary, I feel like they need an etiquette guide, or some kind of ‘no trolleys, chairs or other hazard beyond this point’ 

You can have a great festival with kids but it’s not the same festival you had when you were 18, and loads of people don’t seem to want to accept that.

[collectivisedfarming]

They, or more to the point their operators, were a blight at greenman. Particularly if not lit up or marked at night. I have very poor vision at night. Leaving waist height in some cases wooden structures around not well lit bits in a festival for people to hurt themselves on seems hugely inconsiderate to me. Put some hi-vis tape or something on it if you don't want to do fairy lights. 

Lot of people got very defensive when asked to move their trolleys or show basic consideration in busy areas. 

[philipsteak]

2 hours ago, Bike_Like_A_Mum said:

Yes! Wish I could do a voice note to try and get my point of view across on this for fear of sounding judgy. But I would just love to destroy this myth that they are "ESSENTIAL" because they really aren't!  They're huge, I'm a parent. Done lots of festivals with the kids and took them to the big G for the first time this year. They carried their own rucksacks with a little telescopic stool in each they could sit down on if they needed a rest.  In my opinion if you can make do without taking a house on wheels to the zoo or any other day out then you don't need one at glastonbury. Children who don't use buggies any more, suddenly being pulled around in these things?! We used one once when my two were tiny at Latitude but it was more hassle than it was worth. If you're taking children to Glastonbury or any other festival you have to be prepared to compromise on your experience, if your child needs a safe space for a rest...why the hell would you bowl into a crowd with them?! Like any other day out, if they're over-stimulated you find a quiet area for a sit down/snack/rest. 

However, as much as I wouldn't use one. It's not the carts themselves that bother me - hey, if you wanna do the equivalent of a marathon pulling one of those laden with twice your body weight over rough terrain then that's up to you! But it's the behaviour/attitude/entitleness that "sometimes" goes with it that's the problem. Some people are sensible with them and stick to the quiet paths and the back. But some people have the attitude that others around them should move out the way. At the end of the day, all festivals should be a team effort where everyone looks after each other, you're pulling a massive hazard into that space. Don't get aggy when people trip up over you...you've just potentially hurt them! You apologise. 

But that's the reason this year was my last ever latitude. Because all of this is off the charts. A 40,000 festival and there were hundreds of people who had blocked off their areas. I came across one line of 20 chairs who weren't letting anyone past. Absolute nob heads, I climbed over them in the end and told them about themselves. Imagine if there was a crush or incident up front and they needed to get people out, the arena was PACKED it would have been impossible this year. So, so horrifically bad, never seen anything like it. So, chairs, picnic Blankets, trolleys are all something that needs to be kept an eye on for health and safety reasons in my opinion.

I immediately thought of Latitude on reading the OP. 2019 at one of the headliners (I wanna say Stereophonics? Can't actually remember, they were so dull I've forgotten everything about them. At least Stereophonics adjacent if not actually then) one of the entrances to the Obilisk was completely blocked by I don't know how many of these trollies. Don't think they were all one group, but it was just a complete snarl up. 

[dotdash79]

I've seen people dragging kids around on trolleys at Blackpool, or it might be local smack heads that have OD and being pulled along

[Superscally]

I took one to Bearded Theory as did many others. Didn't see them near the front, nor chairs as the stewards did a great job of stopping anyone putting any up past a certain point. We didn't have ours during the day, but found it useful if our little one flagged after dark. We would then let her sleep with ear defenders on and would stand at the back and watch...

We'll be doing it again, responsibly somewhere next year...

[Hugh Jass II]

Awful lot of judgment flying around this thread....

We took a buggy for each child this year, our youngest definitely needed it still as he was too small to be walking the site all day without a break (plus it stopped him from legging it at every opportunity) and my older one found it useful to have somewhere to sit and even take a little nap as the evenings drew in. Covered each buggy in fairy lights and mainly kept to the Kids and T&C fields, when we ventured to the main stages we always kept to the back* and moved slowly so as not to disturb anyone else.

Really wasn't much of an issue.

*Said multiple times now that they should keep Row Mead free from camping and have it as a permanent buggies/wagons/blankets/chairs/family section.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass II said:

*Said multiple times now that they should keep Row Mead free from camping and have it as a permanent buggies/wagons/blankets/chairs/family section.

I like this idea as long as it's properly policed, i.e. no buggies/wagons/blankets/chairs anywhere else in the arena.

[tarw]

40 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Awful lot of judgment flying around this thread....

*Said multiple times now that they should keep Row Mead free from camping and have it as a permanent buggies/wagons/blankets/chairs/family section.

The problem that I found wasn’t buggies at the stages it was moving around after big sets. **some** parents trying to plough their way through the crowds. Coked up is the image they give. We took our kids when they were small, took a small pushchair and a toddler backpack carrier. We then waited until the crowd had started to thin before heading back- this was more comfortable for the kids.

The only judgement I’ve seen in this thread is on egocentric parents acting inconsiderately not all buggy users

[Hugh Jass II]

44 minutes ago, tarw said:

The problem that I found wasn’t buggies at the stages it was moving around after big sets. **some** parents trying to plough their way through the crowds. Coked up is the image they give. We took our kids when they were small, took a small pushchair and a toddler backpack carrier. We then waited until the crowd had started to thin before heading back- this was more comfortable for the kids.

The only judgement I’ve seen in this thread is on egocentric parents acting inconsiderately not all buggy users

The only headline set we stayed until the end for with the kids was Elton, and after that we made sure to exit at the very, very back of the field.

[dotdash79]

Chains of adults 30 long holding hands and barging through crowds is a lot more annoying than a few buggies.

[Leyrulion]

On 8/29/2023 at 4:32 PM, Old_Johno said:

Having just got back from a lovely Shambala, can we have a discussion about child wagons? I know anything related to parenting gets peoples hackles up (don’t get me started on kids not wearing hearing protection) but I’m genuinely curious to see what people think about it. 

There used to be the odd one, maybe a few prams, but generally children were carried or free range, but now it seems everyone has an 8ft long metal charriot for moving their little ones around in.

Some people even went so far as to ‘wall off’ a section of the main stage crowd to defend their picnic blankets, during Saturday nights headliners. It was like a scene out of an old western movie where they made a wagon circle to fight off some rival gang. 

I love seeing kids having a good time at festivals, and I don’t want this to be an anti child rant, but perhaps it’s time for a bit of an étiqueté guide or a max size? No wagons past a certain point?

Even fairy lights as a minimum would be a good start to stop people walking into abandoned black metal boxy ones in the middle of the night.

The one with the bubble machine at the back was pretty cool though.

[Crazyfool01]

Id love the project of doing the lights for one ... think you could make them look incredible and remove any issues with people not being able to see them in the dark 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Id love the project of doing the lights for one ... think you could make them look incredible and remove any issues with people not being able to see them in the dark 

A new career beckons?

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

A new career beckons?

ha ha .... maybe 🙂 good thought