Black Lives Matter

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

44 minutes ago, bamber said:

All truth.

A day of reckoning will come, the circumstances of that reckoning are ill-defined.

Gill Scott Heron said "The revolution will not be televised".

How wrong can you be?

 

[bamber]

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, bamber said:

Equality is all that is required (Justice). It should be simple

I think that's over-simplifying things, unfortunately. Racism (and other bad things) is embedded in almost everything we do at a cultural level. Changing the culture of the whole world is far from an easy thing.

I think it's probably the case that the best we can have is to nudge things along in the right direction, which of course will be frustratingly slow for the victims of racism. 

As a more-cheerful thing to put against that, progress might be slow but there is progress. Attitudes towards race have changed massively since my childhood and the pressure is still there for more change so we'll keep on having change for the better.

[Homer]

Washington Redskins have finally decided to change their name (was just on 6music news).

[Quark]

6 minutes ago, Homer said:

Washington Redskins have finally decided to change their name (was just on 6music news).

Just saw that, was only discussing it with my parents yesterday as we started talking about the same conversations happening at Exeter Chiefs.

Interesting to see that they only moved on their position as a result of pressure from sponsors and stockists of their merch. Certainly looks like they had to be "encouraged" rather than just doing it because it was right.

Looking forward to Trump's inevitable tweet...

[fred quimby]

10 minutes ago, Quark said:

Just saw that, was only discussing it with my parents yesterday as we started talking about the same conversations happening at Exeter Chiefs.

Interesting to see that they only moved on their position as a result of pressure from sponsors and stockists of their merch. Certainly looks like they had to be "encouraged" rather than just doing it because it was right.

Looking forward to Trump's inevitable tweet...

I may need some education here. What is the Issue with Exeter Chiefs?

 

[Homer]

Anyone know anything about Malcolm X/Nation of Islam? Am halfway through X's autobiography and he has just converted. Be interesting to see where he goes from here, as the religion sounds a tad batshit! 

Not only did the backstory remind me of Scientology (subsequently Googled and transpires they are related), but I hadn't realised that followers literally believe that all white people are the devil.

(Goes without saying that I, of course, support BLM and went to a march the other week.)

Edited July 13, 2020 by Homer

[Quark]

Just now, fred quimby said:

I may need some education here. What is the Issue with Exeter Chiefs?

 

Potted version - Exeter as a club has been around since the 1870s, but in 1999 they changed their name & branding to Exeter Chiefs.  Logo is generic native American with headdress, mascot is the same with a big inflatable tomahawk, fans wear headdresses and sing the "tomahawk chop" chant (again, generic cowboys and indians chanting noise).

Conversation currently happening about whether it should be changed as the club has absolutely zero links to any of the native American people, and it's cultural appropriation in its purest form.

The interesting thing with the Chiefs is that it's a section of its own fans that are really driving the issue, and have submitted a 2,000 (I think) signature petition to the club from its fans asking for the change.  They're suggesting keeping the name, but changing the branding from a native American chief to a Celtic chief, which would have way more relevance.

[Quark]

Found the news article I was reading the other day.  Sadly on the flipside of the fans asking for change you have fans petitioning to keep it.  In itself that's not terrible, but the absolute boneheaded blindness to the issue is what boils my piss:

Exeter fan Ian Dunstan set up the petition defending the club's branding and said he was "not surprised by the call" for change. What he aims to do is "give the many fans their chance to show how they see their team's branding".

When asked if he felt any imagery or branding used by the club was racist, he replied: "Absolutely not. How could a club with so many fans from so many cultures ever market something that was racist?

"You can see the Chiefs logo across the world. I have seen people wearing it in Kenya, Dubai and Montreal."

Classic "I can't be racist, some of my friends are black" mentality there. Also, Kenya, Dubai and Montreal? What the fuck has that got to do with native Americans?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53334193

[Homer]

14 minutes ago, Quark said:

Found the news article I was reading the other day.  Sadly on the flipside of the fans asking for change you have fans petitioning to keep it.  In itself that's not terrible, but the absolute boneheaded blindness to the issue is what boils my piss:

Exeter fan Ian Dunstan set up the petition defending the club's branding and said he was "not surprised by the call" for change. What he aims to do is "give the many fans their chance to show how they see their team's branding".

When asked if he felt any imagery or branding used by the club was racist, he replied: "Absolutely not. How could a club with so many fans from so many cultures ever market something that was racist?

"You can see the Chiefs logo across the world. I have seen people wearing it in Kenya, Dubai and Montreal."

Classic "I can't be racist, some of my friends are black" mentality there. Also, Kenya, Dubai and Montreal? What the fuck has that got to do with native Americans?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53334193

The thing is, you can't just rewrite history. How are future generations supposed to learn about Exeter history without some west country bloke dancing around with a tomahawk doing smoke signals?

(Bit of a weird story this one isn't it!) 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Homer

[Quark]

Just now, Homer said:

The thing is, you can't just rewrite history. How are future generations supposed to learn about Exeter history without some west country dancing around with a tomahawk doing smoke signals?

(Bit of a weird story this one isn't it!) 

If it was some old link between the two, like Pocahontas spent time in Devon and turned out at scrum half for the club's 3rd team while she was over, it'd make a bit more sense.  This was purely about branding when rugby went pro and clubs wanted to start selling more merch.  We're only talking about 20 years!

My point to my parents was that the arguments for changing it have some clear validity to them.  The arguments for keeping it can be pulled apart pretty easily.

[Homer]

6 minutes ago, Quark said:

If it was some old link between the two, like Pocahontas spent time in Devon and turned out at scrum half for the club's 3rd team while she was over, it'd make a bit more sense.  This was purely about branding when rugby went pro and clubs wanted to start selling more merch.  We're only talking about 20 years!

My point to my parents was that the arguments for changing it have some clear validity to them.  The arguments for keeping it can be pulled apart pretty easily.

Ha! Parents eh - what are they like?!

Pocahontas is actually aligned with Gravesend, a right dump in Kent where I work (in theory), believe it or not. There's a statue due to the fact that she passed away there (she was actually on a boat passing by at the time, so it's still a tad tenuous.) 

[Quark]

11 minutes ago, Homer said:

Ha! Parents eh - what are they like?!

Pocahontas is actually aligned with Gravesend, a right dump in Kent where I work (in theory), believe it or not. There's a statue due to the fact that she passed away there (she was actually on a boat passing by at the time, so it's still a tad tenuous.) 

Have to give my parents their due, they ask a lot of questions and are really trying to keep up. It means we can have some really good conversations about stuff like this now.

Also, not far from my old stomping ground. Grew up in Gillingham, was up there seeing olds yesterday

[fred quimby]

5 hours ago, Quark said:

Potted version - Exeter as a club has been around since the 1870s, but in 1999 they changed their name & branding to Exeter Chiefs.  Logo is generic native American with headdress, mascot is the same with a big inflatable tomahawk, fans wear headdresses and sing the "tomahawk chop" chant (again, generic cowboys and indians chanting noise).

Conversation currently happening about whether it should be changed as the club has absolutely zero links to any of the native American people, and it's cultural appropriation in its purest form.

The interesting thing with the Chiefs is that it's a section of its own fans that are really driving the issue, and have submitted a 2,000 (I think) signature petition to the club from its fans asking for the change.  They're suggesting keeping the name, but changing the branding from a native American chief to a Celtic chief, which would have way more relevance.

Thanks Quark for the education

[Quark]

2 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Thanks Quark for the education

De nada, happy to help

[Smeble]

5 hours ago, Quark said:

If it was some old link between the two, like Pocahontas spent time in Devon and turned out at scrum half for the club's 3rd team while she was over, it'd make a bit more sense.  This was purely about branding when rugby went pro and clubs wanted to start selling more merch.  We're only talking about 20 years!

My point to my parents was that the arguments for changing it have some clear validity to them.  The arguments for keeping it can be pulled apart pretty easily.

She did spend time in Devon.

[Smeble]

On 6/24/2020 at 11:29 AM, guypjfreak said:

Really hate to put this out there.. Yes slavery was a terrible time in history but you must remember that it was black men who sold black men to the slavers.. 

It's all bad 

Wrong forum for facts, this place never lets facts get in the way of a bit of self righteousness. I’ll probably end up with more downvotes than you for saying this but black people were selling other black people into slavery long before the white man got involved. Hell they were selling white people into slavery as well.

[Quark]

31 minutes ago, Smeble said:

She did spend time in Devon.

Did she play scrum half?

20 minutes ago, Smeble said:

Wrong forum for facts, this place never lets facts get in the way of a bit of self righteousness. I’ll probably end up with more downvotes than you for saying this but black people were selling other black people into slavery long before the white man got involved. Hell they were selling white people into slavery as well.

Can't be arsed to retype it, but tried to set out why there's such a difference in response to Guy's original post.

[OG]

Is @Smeble pissed or is he always a dick?

[philipsteak]

8 minutes ago, OG said:

Is @Smeble pissed or is he always a dick?

I assume he's still a dick. Blocked him a long time ago

ETA, just seen his replies in Quark's post. My point still stands

Edited July 13, 2020 by philipsteak

[OG]

Thanks. I didn't know you could block people, I'll have a look how to do that 

[eFestivals]

my local has a footie team called the cowgirls. Are the about to be had-up for cultural appropriation...?  

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, Smeble said:

Wrong forum for facts, this place never lets facts get in the way of a bit of self righteousness. I’ll probably end up with more downvotes than you for saying this but black people were selling other black people into slavery long before the white man got involved. Hell they were selling white people into slavery as well.

And white people were selling white people into slavery. British people were selling British people into slavery. Who knew that humans are c**ts? 

Meanwhile, 'the slave trade' industrialised slavery, and the effects of that trade are still scattered deeply in British (and other) culture as racism.

A few facts for you, as you love them.  

Edited July 14, 2020 by eFestivals

[Simsy]

9 hours ago, Smeble said:

Wrong forum for facts, this place never lets facts get in the way of a bit of self righteousness. I’ll probably end up with more downvotes than you for saying this but black people were selling other black people into slavery long before the white man got involved. Hell they were selling white people into slavery as well.

Soz, didn't realise not being a racist was "self righteousness" 🙄

[Homer]

51 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

my local has a footie team called the cowgirls. Are the about to be had-up for cultural appropriation...?

 

 

 

The Easton Cowboys/girls are a disgrace - get 'em in the sea! (#AFCBohemia4Life)