When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

Thin edge of the wedge

 

 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Yeah I'm not saying we shouldn't do both, and the rules are being enforced as you say. And we should continue to do so. But with the current policy and level of enforcement, the big problem is work, not the few people breaking the rules. It would be far better if social media and national press were shaming call centres still insisting on having their staff come in, than a family having a picnic.

The more subtle point I was making, is that I'm fairly sure that it being a weekday morning, all of us posting here are either furloughed, home working or unemployed. For us, the rules make absolute sense. Don't leave the house except for the absolute essentials. Indeed, we're starting to question if leaving it when we can do is really worth it. We're not going to die if we don't get much exercise for a few months, and if we can get a grocery delivery slot we don't need to shop either. Maybe the rules should be more stringent?

But then compare that with someone being told to go in to work. They know their work isn't essential. They chase up unpaid bills for a bank. Important to the company bottom line but really not essential. Nothing would fall apart if they were not working for three months. And they could do a good portion of their job from home anyway. They resent having to go into work. It puts them and their family at risk. But the government expressly think it's okay. But then they're being told that, out of work hours, they shouldn't leave the house. They shouldn't see friends. Even the friends they sit right next to at work every day. To them, the rules make absolutely no sense. Surely if it's fine for them to get the bus to work it's fine for them to get the bus to the beach and go for a walk there right?

Do you see how mixed that message is? Do you get how, under those circumstances, people might decide the rules are stupid so they won't follow them? Or at the more extreme end go: well, the government isn't protecting me so why should I suffer to protect everyone else?

The thing about collective responsibility is that everyone needs to work together. But if your employer won't own that responsibility, and the government won't force them to, then why would you?

I personally think most people are following the rules and there isnt any point in getting worked up about a tiny minority who seem to not be doing so (most the gotcha photos seem to have social distancing to me)

[fatyeti24]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Thin edge of the wedge

 

 

I'm isolating myself from twats like that.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

15 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Yeah I'm not saying we shouldn't do both, and the rules are being enforced as you say. And we should continue to do so. But with the current policy and level of enforcement, the big problem is work, not the few people breaking the rules. It would be far better if social media and national press were shaming call centres still insisting on having their staff come in, than a family having a picnic.

The more subtle point I was making, is that I'm fairly sure that it being a weekday morning, all of us posting here are either furloughed, home working or unemployed. For us, the rules make absolute sense. Don't leave the house except for the absolute essentials. Indeed, we're starting to question if leaving it when we can do is really worth it. We're not going to die if we don't get much exercise for a few months, and if we can get a grocery delivery slot we don't need to shop either. Maybe the rules should be more stringent?

But then compare that with someone being told to go in to work. They know their work isn't essential. They chase up unpaid bills for a bank. Important to the company bottom line but really not essential. Nothing would fall apart if they were not working for three months. And they could do a good portion of their job from home anyway. They resent having to go into work. It puts them and their family at risk. But the government expressly think it's okay. But then they're being told that, out of work hours, they shouldn't leave the house. They shouldn't see friends. Even the friends they sit right next to at work every day. To them, the rules make absolutely no sense. Surely if it's fine for them to get the bus to work it's fine for them to get the bus to the beach and go for a walk there right?

Do you see how mixed that message is? Do you get how, under those circumstances, people might decide the rules are stupid so they won't follow them? Or at the more extreme end go: well, the government isn't protecting me so why should I suffer to protect everyone else?

The thing about collective responsibility is that everyone needs to work together. But if your employer won't own that responsibility, and the government won't force them to, then why would you?

I agree in the main with most of what you’re saying. What I will say is that I personally don’t know anybody who isn’t working from home other than two who are key workers. In actual fact most companies took matters into their own hands and enacted it before the government did, most business don’t want all their staff off sick or self isolating. I don’t disagree that it’s happening though, and if businesses are still insisting on operating and dragging staff in when they could be working from home and/or are none essential then they absolutely should be named and shamed. But at the same time if the odd group of sunbathers (who on there own aren’t a risk or causing the virus to spread) aren’t told to moved on, or aren’t reprimanded and shown up in the press etc then unfortunately it will lead to a situation when too many people do it. I appreciate that’s not great for people who also have to go to work, but there isn’t a way to differentiate these people from anyone else.

[Spindles]

6 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I agree in the main with most of what you’re saying. What I will say is that I personally don’t know anybody who isn’t working from home other than two who are key workers.

Not in any way a dig,  but your statement suggests you aren't working class or know anyone who is.  Everyone I know is at work mate, everyone, in warehouses and factories and call centres, now, today.  I'm only off because I'm classed as high risk or I'd be sat at a desk in a row of dozens, a meter wide and elbow to elbow with my colleagues apologising to the huge volume of people phoning to complain their pointless fucking tat they ordered on line to fill the boredom didn't arrive in the delivery window.

You might not know anybody who isn't working from home, many of us don't know anyone who is.

 

*edited to say this might sound overly harsh and I have no axe to grind with you, the life you live or your class, I'm just trying to highlight that it is easy to generalise the situation from your own perspective, we all live different lives.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Spindles

[DeanoL]

4 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I agree in the main with most of what you’re saying. What I will say is that I personally don’t know anybody who isn’t working from home other than two who are key workers. In actual fact most companies took matters into their own hands and enacted it before the government did, most business don’t want all their staff off sick or self isolating.

Same here. I suspect that's down to class dynamics though. The data says otherwise. And this is part of the problem, we struggle to conceive of the idea that folk are still having to go into work, and how they may have a different view on this, because we don't. And none of our friends do. And the media don't report on it. I guess party that is necessary to maintain the lockdown, as if we were very aware of it, we would realise how half-arsed this lockdown was, and be less likely to abide by it. Even if we were home working ourselves.

[Ommadawn]

5 minutes ago, Spindles said:

Not in any way a dig,  but your statement suggests you aren't working class or know anyone who is.  Everyone I know is at work mate, everyone, in warehouses and factories and call centres, now, today.  I'm only off because I'm classed as high risk or I'd be sat at a desk in a row of dozens, a meter wide and elbow to elbow with my colleagues apologising to the huge volume of people phoning to complain their pointless fucking tat they ordered on line to fill the boredom didn't arrive in the delivery window.

You might not know anybody who isn't working from home, many of us don't know anyone who is.

How strange that you bring class into this. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, Spindles said:

Not in any way a dig,  but your statement suggests you aren't working class or know anyone who is.  Everyone I know is at work mate, everyone, in warehouses and factories and call centres, now, today.  I'm only off because I'm classed as high risk or I'd be sat at a desk in a row of dozens, a meter wide and elbow to elbow with my colleagues apologising to the huge volume of people phoning to complain their pointless fucking tat they ordered on line to fill the boredom didn't arrive in the delivery window.

You might not know anybody who isn't working from home, many of us don't know anyone who is.

 

*edited to say this might sound overly harsh and I have no axe to grind with you, the life you live or your class, I'm just trying to highlight that it is easy to generalise the situation from your own perspective, we all live different lives.

It’s not something I’d thought about but you’re probably right, I suppose everyone I know is in an office based role that they can do from home from a laptop. The key workers who are working still, work in social care and on the train network respectively. I have got friends that I guess you’d describe as doing manual labour but they’ve all be furloughed.

[Scotdy]

22 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I agree in the main with most of what you’re saying. What I will say is that I personally don’t know anybody who isn’t working from home other than two who are key workers. 

I would say 90% of people I know are still going to work in various jobs. For us life is pretty much the same. 

[sadimmock]

I am very lucky in that a) I can work from home and b) my employer did the responsible thing and shut all of sites pretty early on. However I know lots of people who are still having to go to work. For example one street away from me is a shoe factory (which makes very expensive men’s shoes). It still appears to be operating a full shift pattern. How ludicrous must it be to tell people that it is safe for them to work in a designer shoe factory but they are “bad” if they want to socially isolate in the park for a while.

This is not a rare example, the warehouses on the other side of town are also still all open. Who really needs new hubcaps and so on now?  

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

The current situation is completely unprecedented, it’s very unfortunate that’s it’s naturally going to create some inequalities. It’s probably worth remembering though that every job and industry has this anyway. There will be a lot of pub and restaurant workers and non essential shop workers currently on furlough, who would normally have to work xmas, bank holidays and weekends etc when others do not.

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Thin edge of the wedge

 

 

[DareToDibble]

3 hours ago, zahidf said:

Different to us obviously but probably a similar sort of time frame for exiting lockdown in terms of steps

'

Austria announces plans to end lockdown

The Austrian Chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, has said the country is planning to let smaller shops reopen on 14 April, with the aim of reopening all shops and malls from 1 May.

From then onwards, hotels and restaurants will open step-by-step from mid-May at the earliest, but a decision on that will come in late April. No events will be held until at least late June.

Meanwhile general lockdown measures will be extended until the end of April, and schools will remain closed until at least mid-May.

Kurz also announced that from Monday, face masks will be compulsory on public transport.'

Interesting. How far behind Austria are we in term of lockdown measures?

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

Interesting. How far behind Austria are we in term of lockdown measures?

Was stricter. Around 7 days behind us

Lower death figures today again in UK, though probably counting issues (403)

Edited April 6, 2020 by zahidf

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Was stricter. Around 7 days behind us

Lower death figures today again in UK, though probably counting issues (403)

That's for England...but yes, lower, and likely UK will be too.

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Was stricter. Around 7 days behind us

Lower death figures today again in UK, though probably counting issues (403)

Sunday /Monday have been lower ... tue seems to be a bounce back of numbers day ... fingers crossed it’s not this week 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Sunday /Monday have been lower ... tue seems to be a bounce back of numbers day ... fingers crossed it’s not this week 

people like to have the weekend off.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

people like to have the weekend off.

Let’s hope covid joined them this weekend 

[Wellyboot]

When actually will this shit end??  

Just spoke to my boyfriend and a man he knows died at the weekend, today one of his friends has been taken to hospital cos he cant breathe.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Wellyboot said:

When actually will this shit end??  

Just spoke to my boyfriend and a man he knows died at the weekend, today one of his friends has been taken to hospital cos he cant breathe.

who knows. Not for a while, but maybe we'll be over the worst of it by summer...but the virus could be with us permanently and we'll have to rely on a vaccine and herd immunity.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Wellyboot said:

When actually will this shit end??  

Just spoke to my boyfriend and a man he knows died at the weekend, today one of his friends has been taken to hospital cos he cant breathe.

The numbers in Europe seem to have peaked now And started dropping .. so I take that as a positive ... we might see some easing of restrictions in a few weeks maybe but normality is not going to happen for quite a bit ... but life will get easier hang in there 

[Spindles]

7 minutes ago, Wellyboot said:

When actually will this shit end??  

Full measures?  Hopefully sooner rather than later, wouldn't rule out things getting stricter before we start to relax things just yet, although signs from other nations suggest that lockdowns might get gradually loosened to enable wider employment.  Normalcy as we knew it?  Some people think it could be up to 18 months, it's simply impossible to say because it all depends on the behaviour, infection rate and effectiveness of strategies.  From the outset nations all went in slightly different directions and then learned from what worked elsewhere, you can only expect that to continue and, like viral spread, the rate of progress will be exponential. We'll beat this and if we are lucky we'll beat it faster than some fear, co-operation is strength here.

[DareToDibble]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

The numbers in Europe seem to have peaked now And started dropping .. so I take that as a positive ... we might see some easing of restrictions in a few weeks maybe but normality is not going to happen for quite a bit ... but life will get easier hang in there 

It’s never going to happen but I think of people knew an end date to all this they’d be a lot better off.

If you knew that on 1st May shops would reopen, 1st June pubs with small numbers then 1st July everything would be fully back to normal (just example dates) then people know they’re x% through. At the moment we have no idea.

The problem is nobody knows and any dates given would be complete guesses.

[Spindles]

Just now, DareToDibble said:

It’s never going to happen but I think of people knew an end date to all this they’d be a lot better off.

If you knew that on 1st May shops would reopen, 1st June pubs with small numbers then 1st July everything would be fully back to normal (just example dates) then people know they’re x% through. At the moment we have no idea.

The problem is nobody knows and any dates given would be complete guesses.

Brilliantly put, no upvotes sadly.  Seeing an exit strategy laid out like that would give people something to hope for, something to aim for, something to plan for.  Sadly Keir Starmer got a kicking for suggesting the same, but it really would be for the best if they could at least give us something close to your suggestion, even if it was heavily qualified with "as long as things continue on the path we hope"

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

It’s never going to happen but I think of people knew an end date to all this they’d be a lot better off.

If you knew that on 1st May shops would reopen, 1st June pubs with small numbers then 1st July everything would be fully back to normal (just example dates) then people know they’re x% through. At the moment we have no idea.

The problem is nobody knows and any dates given would be complete guesses.

Oh absolutely guesses but looking elsewhere some of the restrictions now have loosening dates in Europe at least ... that’s not to say things might not go back if things start ramping up again .. so a start on the route to normality ... but a long path ahead