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Chrisp1986

When will this shit end?

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Are you selectively reading my posts or maybe I’m not explaining effectively?

No, but maybe I have misunderstood, I don't know.  When you say "a bit of both" I have read that to mean a bit of those who think "Sod, it" because of Cummings and a bit of those who think they are doing nothing wrong because they don't understand the guidelines.

I was pointing out that there is a third group of people who fall into neither of these categories.  Sorry if I misunderstood, things get lost in translation online sometimes, it doesn't always mean the other person is deliberately trying to be an arsehole.

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2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

No, but maybe I have misunderstood, I don't know.  When you say "a bit of both" I have read that to mean a bit of those who think "Sod, it" because of Cummings and a bit of those who think they are doing nothing wrong because they don't understand the guidelines.

I was pointing out that there is a third group of people who fall into neither of these categories.  Sorry if I misunderstood, things get lost in translation online sometimes, it doesn't always mean the other person is deliberately trying to be an arsehole.

I’m trying to that Cummings will have added to a more relaxed attitude through the country that all type different types of people will pick up on then act differently as a result. 

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There are always people in life who don’t care and just want an excuse to vindicate their actions. I don’t agree with it but we all know a lot of people like that exist.

Its not really any different to the Cummings sympathisers pointing out the Labour MPs who broke rules, that’s just excusing one wrong doing because of another. 

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2 hours ago, Cream Soda said:

I do think people have to take some responsibility for their own actions. I've seen photos of hundreds of people piling off a train in Brighton, some of whom are just going to sunbathe. Assuming the photo was real, how can those people not take some responsibility for what they are doing? The rules are clear about using public transport only where essential. Sunbathing is not essential. No one can claim this isn't clear, it is perfectly clear. I can only assume these people are adults who have weighed up the risks and feel they want to chance it,  even though they know they are going against government advice. If there is a second peak as a result no one can claim they didn't know they were risking it. This might conveniently fit into the government's herd immunity plan, but no one is forcing these people to pile on a train to go sunbathing. 

I think what also shows how clueless the government are is this enforced quarantine from 8th june. Netherlands has been open this whole time without a quarantine and things like zoos, shops, hotels, resturants, theme parks there are all reopen again. I know people who have jetted off for last minute trips across the border for a short holiday and are coming back just before the quarantine starts. 

This surely isn’t going to help the R rate and if they really wanted to implement a quarantine they should have just done it with immediate effect rather than delaying it until 8 June.

The quarantine also doesn’t stop me thinking about holidays, most EU countries are opening back up between 15 June- 1st july and I’m prepared to take the hit and take the 2 weeks quarantine or wait until end of June when it will most likely be scrapped. I’m sure many others will have similar idea about holidays, especially when looking at yesterday’s deaths, every european country is far safer than ours. 

 

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4 hours ago, Neil said:

yeah - risks aren't too big while everyone is outside. Shit's going to come when the weather turns bad.

My concern is that we'll be on a victory parade having "beaten" the virus by then, so pubs will be open with little social distancing, just in time for then.

 

2 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

No one is stopping them, though, either. I don't think you'd have been able to get a train at peak of lockdown in Spain, for example, without proving you are going to work or have a medical need. I don't want to live in a police state but nothing has been enforced in this country: transport restrictions, masks, big groups in public spaces. It's all just left up to the individual and sadly it turns out the individual is bloody selfish.

I've understood there to be no change to the guidance on public transport (avoid if possible) which is one of the big reasons we are not seeing our family or debating hiring a car if we do. But as you say it's not just about the guidance, it's about whether I think it's a risk and I think getting in a tube and train to see my over-70s mum definitely is.

I think this is one of the things that I've found most infuriating about the past few days. So many people are just excited to see the government easing things and happy to do what they can get away with that they are not actually thinking about whether it is safe or sensible to do so.

This sums up the English public perfectly. It's all about what they can get away with, not what's right or needed. 

2 hours ago, reflekting said:

I think the only thing the Tories are trying to avoid is pictures of patients on hospital floors as that is a political weapon that can be used against them. If the NHS has capacity then they will fill it back up solely to restart the economy. 

Nail on the head there I think- it's always worried me this "avoid a second wave that overwhelms the NHS"...that actually didnt happen when we were reporting 1000 deaths a day, so even providing some room for maneuver we could be running at something like 700 deaths reported a day and still meet that test.

I suspect our view of what should lead to restrictions being tightened again and the government's number are very very far apart...

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Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

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7 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

To be fair to the Premier League, they do have the resources to restart safely.

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4 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

I think that’s just quite binary really, there is either capacity within the emergency services or there isn’t, so it all depends where we are in a year’s time. If there is capacity within the NHS then I don’t see what’s unethical about going ahead.

With regards to the football, they are testing about 1000 people twice a week, but it’s been confirmed this has no impact on the NHS. Games will be behind closed doors, so you’d assume policing will be low, or not much more than might be needed to patrol a park during lockdown. Not sure of the need for paramedics with no crowd and only players, I’d assume they’d still need one on standby but the government wouldn’t have given the go ahead if there was no capacity, so again I don’t see it being unethical.

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45 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I think what also shows how clueless the government are is this enforced quarantine from 8th june. Netherlands has been open this whole time without a quarantine and things like zoos, shops, hotels, resturants, theme parks there are all reopen again. I know people who have jetted off for last minute trips across the border for a short holiday and are coming back just before the quarantine starts. 

This surely isn’t going to help the R rate and if they really wanted to implement a quarantine they should have just done it with immediate effect rather than delaying it until 8 June.

The quarantine also doesn’t stop me thinking about holidays, most EU countries are opening back up between 15 June- 1st july and I’m prepared to take the hit and take the 2 weeks quarantine or wait until end of June when it will most likely be scrapped. I’m sure many others will have similar idea about holidays, especially when looking at yesterday’s deaths, every european country is far safer than ours. 

 

Greece has already said they won't accept travellers from the UK. Wouldn't be surprised (or blame them) if other EU countries followed suit.

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1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I’m trying to that Cummings will have added to a more relaxed attitude through the country that all type different types of people will pick up on then act differently as a result. 

I see and yes it will probably happen, it's still passing the responsibility to someone else though isn't it whether its Cummings or your next door neighbour.  It's still the attitude of "someone else is doing so I'll copy them and do the same even though I know it's against the guidelines".  It shouldn't matter what they or anyone else is doing, if you know the rules you should keep to them until advised otherwise.  I know that won't be the reality, but it should be.

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3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Greece has already said they won't accept travellers from the UK. Wouldn't be surprised (or blame them) if other EU countries followed suit.

Can't blame them, with our infection rates, spectacularly inept handling and forthcoming second surge, we'll pretty much be pariahs for the foreseeable future-- ironic after all these years of anti immigrant rhetoric and sentiment! 

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So Vallance has written in the telegraph that herd immunity was never and never would be an advocated policy. Shameless stuff! There are interviews of him saying the opposite back when everyone was saying should be locking down (and the government were making out we were so much smarter than any other country for not doing it). 

Sage must be made up of the most inept, government-cowed, bullshitting scientists in the world. Either that or the sole criteria is that you're a tory. They just keep lying! Still haven't forgotten that one who claimed we were an international examplar for preparedness, that suddenly testing no longer mattered because we weren't a developing country, etc etc

They still haven't twigged on that the government set them up as the fall guys from day one! They still spin the government lines! 

 

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1 hour ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I think that’s just quite binary really, there is either capacity within the emergency services or there isn’t, so it all depends where we are in a year’s time. If there is capacity within the NHS then I don’t see what’s unethical about going ahead.

With regards to the football, they are testing about 1000 people twice a week, but it’s been confirmed this has no impact on the NHS. Games will be behind closed doors, so you’d assume policing will be low, or not much more than might be needed to patrol a park during lockdown. Not sure of the need for paramedics with no crowd and only players, I’d assume they’d still need one on standby but the government wouldn’t have given the go ahead if there was no capacity, so again I don’t see it being unethical.

You have more faith in them than I do!

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When do we reckon they'll start allowing people to visit eachother homes? I live far away from all my family so haven't seen any of them in months. Was hoping I'd be able to go visit them this summer...

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Have they just given up at this point? 

 

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1 minute ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

When do we reckon they'll start allowing people to visit eachother homes? I live far away from all my family so haven't seen any of them in months. Was hoping I'd be able to go visit them this summer...

The way things are going I’d say July is likely 

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2 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

When do we reckon they'll start allowing people to visit eachother homes? I live far away from all my family so haven't seen any of them in months. Was hoping I'd be able to go visit them this summer...

At this rate, next week!

I'd think maybe July? Hard to justify not being allowed to if cinemas are opening. 

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12 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

When do we reckon they'll start allowing people to visit eachother homes? I live far away from all my family so haven't seen any of them in months. Was hoping I'd be able to go visit them this summer...

They’ll probably announce it at something random like 3am shortly after one of the cabinet has been caught going to his Uncles then claim that’s been the rule all along. 

Edited by Ozanne
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Currently could you not go to parents and camp in the garden if they have one ?  

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3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Currently could you not go to parents and camp in the garden if they have one ?  

They were specifically asked that and the answer was no.

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7 minutes ago, jparx said:

They were specifically asked that and the answer was no.

Yet you can drive 30 miles with dodgy eyesight. 

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8 minutes ago, jparx said:

They were specifically asked that and the answer was no.

Somebody wake me up in 6 months ... I need to sleep this out :( 

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So, let’s go back to the question of the thread.

When do we (especially the more scientific minds on here) think this will all end?

I’m hoping we have some sense of normality by September and then by the New Year we get somewhere near to where we were - albeit with increased hygiene measures.

Do you reckon live gigs/theatre shows will happen again in 2020? And will we be able to play a contact sport like outdoors 5-a-side football?

 

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