When will this shit end?

[Avalon_Fields]

4 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Perhaps initally, but overall I would say we mishandled it too. Particularly the 2nd and 3rd waves.

Thank you for an honest reply. Best wishes.

[philipsteak]

20 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yep fair comment … although maybe different ones in supermarket pharmacy’s etc might come online to fill the void … 

Don't know about the ones in supermarkets, but my village pharmacy still relies on volunteer help for their vaccinations. I guess they still need to do all the regular pharmacy stuff too, so can only give up so many staff for the vaccinations

[Avalon_Fields]

Now we have criticism directed at Australia for closing their borders:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/14/the-hermit-kingdom-how-a-proudly-multicultural-country-became-fortress-australia?utm_term=bcbaa56dfd395c672786d3b14913fd95&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

'Allen believes the country “risks regressing” both culturally and economically without reopening to immigration, tourism and family reunions'

So here's an argument opposite to many thoughts on looser border controls the UK have adopted. I'm confused at The Guardian have consistently been arguing for tighter controls here. Perhaps we allowed routes to India to be maintained for these reasons, or should we have separated Indian families too?? Once closed, as Australia will find, it's very hard to reopen.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Don't know about the ones in supermarkets, but my village pharmacy still relies on volunteer help for their vaccinations. I guess they still need to do all the regular pharmacy stuff too, so can only give up so many staff for the vaccinations

Yep again fair comment thinking about the centre as I went through yesterday … I engaged with a trafic marshal … someone handing out masks , someone sanitising hands , check in desk , marshal , then jab , 2 people on the 15 min wait area , and then someone cleaning the waiting chairs so it’s definatly labour intensive process 

[stuartbert two hats]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

If it was any other government the PM would probably resign for this alone. 

Come on man. This current situation is nothing compared to other fuck ups in the pandemic.

You think Blair would resign in this situation? Nobody would.

[steviewevie]

47 minutes ago, Avalon_Fields said:

Now we have criticism directed at Australia for closing their borders:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/14/the-hermit-kingdom-how-a-proudly-multicultural-country-became-fortress-australia?utm_term=bcbaa56dfd395c672786d3b14913fd95&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

'Allen believes the country “risks regressing” both culturally and economically without reopening to immigration, tourism and family reunions'

So here's an argument opposite to many thoughts on looser border controls the UK have adopted. I'm confused at The Guardian have consistently been arguing for tighter controls here. Perhaps we allowed routes to India to be maintained for these reasons, or should we have separated Indian families too?? Once closed, as Australia will find, it's very hard to reopen.

Yeah, well, you get different opinions in the guardian. There are never any easy answers to any of this....there are always losers whichever method you choose...but we've had many more deaths, much longer in lockdown, and more harm to the economy than Australia.

[steviewevie]

Missus getting 2nd jab this afternoon.

[Avalon_Fields]

48 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Come on man. This current situation is nothing compared to other fuck ups in the pandemic.

You think Blair would resign in this situation? Nobody would.

I was trying to think of PMs who have resigned voluntarily, there’s David Cameron after he lost the Brexit vote, and Anthony Eden. Chamberlain. All Tories!! 

[squirrelarmy]

52 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Come on man. This current situation is nothing compared to other fuck ups in the pandemic.

You think Blair would resign in this situation? Nobody would.

It should be fairly simple to compile a list of reasons MP’s have resigned over for the last 50 years. It will be interesting to see how many of those things Spaffer has done while being an MP. 

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, Avalon_Fields said:

I was trying to think of PMs who have resigned voluntarily, there’s David Cameron after he lost the Brexit vote, and Anthony Eden. Chamberlain. All Tories!! 

Thatcher resigned too, although Tory mythology tends to skip over that. 

[steviewevie]

Have any world leaders resigned over their handling of the pandemic? Don't think so.

[Crazyfool01]

Some good news hopefully 

 

[Copperface]

4 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Thatcher resigned too, although Tory mythology tends to skip over that. 

And Theresa May, Tony Blair and Harold Wilson. It's not a short list and not restricted to the Tories.

[DeanoL]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Focusing on preventing hospitalisations and deaths still. Which I get!

 

Fwiw, I dont buy the 10k hospitlisations a day. I think they're undervaluing the protections vaccines give. 

They will be - the models have to use the scientifically proven efficacy rates for Greg vaccine I think. It’d be wrong to do differently, even though the reality heavily suggests they’re much better.

1 hour ago, not worthy said:

Spot on. Initially the slots were oversubscribed but now they are running short. Both my wife and I have had last minute calls to cover shifts over recent weeks

This is going to be an increasing problem isn’t it? As more of the economy opens up fewer people will be able to volunteer. We should maybe start paying people?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

And Theresa May, Tony Blair and Harold Wilson. It's not a short list and not restricted to the Tories.

I was going to say Blair resigned although he would probably say he retired 😆

[HalfAnIdiot]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I was going to say Blair resigned although he would probably say he retired 😆

He seems to be currently struggling with the concept of being retired 🙄

[stuartbert two hats]

8 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Thatcher resigned too, although Tory mythology tends to skip over that. 

Not voluntarily though - she only resigned when it looked like she was going to lose a leadership challenge.

[efcfanwirral]

1 hour ago, JoeyT said:

What numbers do we think we will be hitting vaccination wise over the next few weeks then?

If we ramp up enormously (and I hope we do obviously) it will beg the questions as to why we weren’t hitting those numbers throughout won’t it?

Especially when you factor the volume of doses apparently sitting in storage and not in arms.

I'd hate to think that the stockpile of doses was because they were covering up the Indian variant until after the local elections and knew they might need surge vaccination...

1 hour ago, not worthy said:

the limiting factor will become staff/volunteers. As the economy opens up then the number of volunteers will reduce.

If we are going to get into a cycle of vaccination updates this will be a challenge - as will the number of venues when those being use now return to normal use.

I guess it becomes an "industry" of its own then and maybe there will be funds there to pay people. there must be loads of events people who can help out - I'd expect we'll be limited on that front while there's any need for worrying about giving boosters to the the whole population, because it clearly means there's a threat.  With lower capacities at football, a lot less music events then a recruitment drive aimed at those who's income is being lost in the event world should help to get the numbers in. I imagine there are people not signing up to volunteer over the summer because they've been told their event jobs are coming back. I'm guessing volunteer numbers will improve over the next few weeks when those events drop off. 

On venues if budget is assigned for long term needs I guess they can lease empty shops/bars/pubs or even set up little tented vaccination villages in parks. 

Not saying this in a conspiratorial way but companies lke Pfizer are going to make billions - i reckon we're looking at 4 jabs each at the very least over the next year to 18 months. Worldwide. Eye watering figures 

[HalfAnIdiot]

Just now, stuartbert two hats said:

Not voluntarily though - she only resigned when it looked like she was going to lose a leadership challenge.

When the pro-European cabinet ganged up and challenged her leadership as she was becoming increasingly euro-sceptic. 

All a long time ago yet still so current. 

[steviewevie]

Well, if cases numbers do rise significantly here then we're about to carry out a real world test of the effectiveness of the vaccines.

[JoeyT]

This thread is interesting and I’ve summarised but do take a look at it all. Ultimately ends in someone asking a question and this chap which results in some good news (I think?!) note final tweet...

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by JoeyT

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'd hate to think that the stockpile of doses was because they were covering up the Indian variant until after the local elections and knew they might need surge vaccination...

I guess it becomes an "industry" of its own then and maybe there will be funds there to pay people. there must be loads of events people who can help out - I'd expect we'll be limited on that front while there's any need for worrying about giving boosters to the the whole population, because it clearly means there's a threat.  With lower capacities at football, a lot less music events then a recruitment drive aimed at those who's income is being lost in the event world should help to get the numbers in. I imagine there are people not signing up to volunteer over the summer because they've been told their event jobs are coming back. I'm guessing volunteer numbers will improve over the next few weeks when those events drop off. 

On venues if budget is assigned for long term needs I guess they can lease empty shops/bars/pubs or even set up little tented vaccination villages in parks. 

Not saying this in a conspiratorial way but companies lke Pfizer are going to make billions - i reckon we're looking at 4 jabs each at the very least over the next year to 18 months. Worldwide. Eye watering figures 

Oxford/AZ are going to eventually coin it in as well. Although they are currently on a 'not for profit basis' they revert to commercial pricing 'once the pandemic is over'. The clause in their contract states that that is for AZ to declare that and that they can do that as early as July this year.

https://www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-8807-4e57-9c79-6f4af145b686

[ShakeyCrash]

It was also be interesting to see what this does for vaccine hesitancy. Hopefully it drives those numbers down and people who were hesitant before now get vaccinated 

Edited May 15, 2021 by ShakeyCrash
Terrible wording

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Oxford/AZ are going to eventually coin it in as well. Although they are currently on a 'not for profit basis' they revert to commercial pricing 'once the pandemic is over'. The clause in their contract states that that is for AZ to declare that and that they can do that as early as July this year.

https://www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-8807-4e57-9c79-6f4af145b686

Presumably it'll be declared over when the Western world opens up, making poorer countries pay for it.

One thing we need to do is avoid these companies having too much lobbying power. I assume we're not going to be just taking them at their word when they come out with things like "antibodies waning after 6 months" because its in their interests for that to happen 

[Copperface]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Presumably it'll be declared over when the Western world opens up, making poorer countries pay for it.

One thing we need to do is avoid these companies having too much lobbying power. I assume we're not going to be just taking them at their word when they come out with things like "antibodies waning after 6 months" because its in their interests for that to happen 

Not sure that is the case. Their Brazilian contract, which was published, actually specifies that the pandemic officially ends on 1st July 2021 although this can be extended if "AstraZeneca acting in good faith considers that the SARS-COV-2 pandemic is not over" . However, reputationally I can't see how that would get away with that at the moment if they tried that on now.

The UK one has not been made fully transparent so might possibly have the same clause. Irrespective of that, AZ/Oxford financial risk in development was negligible as it was almost fully publicly funded so the only risk that AZ really took was reputational.

AstraZeneca has stated it will not profit from the vaccine during the pandemic. But in an agreement with Brazilian public research body Fiocruz seen by the Financial Times3AstraZeneca defines the pandemic period as ending on 1 July 2021. MSF said that this means that AstraZeneca “could charge governments and other purchasers, including the NHS, high prices for a vaccine that was predominantly funded by the public.”