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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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12 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s not full proof. It’s not even designed to be full proof. 
 

 

The idea is to reduce the risk not to eliminate it entirely. Will you get a few arseholes who fudge it and go out anyway? Sure, but remember that covid rates are so low that probably 199 in every 200 people at any one time do not have the virus, so you wouldn’t expect these LFT’s to be screening out loads of cases. They’re just there as an extra line of security. 

Extra line of money for the Tories mates too for very little public gain. 

i thought the idea of these vaccine passports is to make the vaccinated feel safe not being around the unvaccinated? Any self reporting system will undermine that safety if they don't trust that those around them definitely tested negative

Edited by efcfanwirral
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1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Extra line of money for the Tories mates too for very little public gain. 

i thought the idea of these vaccine passports is to make the vaccinated feel safe not being around the unvaccinated? Any self reporting system will undermine that safety if they don't trust that those around them definitely tested negative


 

What exactly is your solution then? It’s all very well criticising the measure but what would YOU do?

 

Delay the reopening altogether?

Vaccine passports only, effectively shutting off anyone under 50?

Reopen without passports and risk more of a spike?

 

 

Covid status passports (I.e. vaccine or LFT) aren’t ideal but they might be the best thing we have to reopen without a genuine two tier society 

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They’d probably have more success if prices were hiked or an additional charge was placed in pubs, restaurants, hotels etc as a form of ‘tax’ for those who did not provide proof of vaccination, rather than an outright ban on them entering places.

People would probably soon get sick of paying the additional fees and be persuaded to get the vaccine, as directly affecting somebody’s pocket is often the best way to encourage.  

Edited by st dan
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33 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Isnt just a supply problem in the EU...

"Frustration with the slow rollout of the vaccine remains high, with newspaper Tagesspiegel reporting that 100,000 doses of the AstraZeneca jab remain in storage in Berlin after people failed to take up their appointments."

 

 

Denmark will extend its suspension of the AstraZeneca vaccine for a further three weeks, Reuters reports.

 

 

100,000 isn't very many though given the scale of vaccinations given every day.

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32 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

Looks like its happening whatever people on the ground think or want- it'll be a choice between this and actually delaying the reopening. 

I still think this talk of "vaccine or test" is completely unrealistic- every single person under a certain age is going to want a test to allow them to do things - the queues at the centres will be mad and will we even have enough tests to do that every few days?

I don't disagree demand will be high but it's not every single person by a long shot. I'm not going to pubs, gigs etc. until I'm vaccinated. I've waited a year, I'll wait the extra month or so - even a bit longer if it means redirecting doses to the EU to save lives. 

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8 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:


 

What exactly is your solution then? It’s all very well criticising the measure but what would YOU do?

 

Delay the reopening altogether?

Vaccine passports only, effectively shutting off anyone under 50?

Reopen without passports and risk more of a spike?

 

 

Covid status passports (I.e. vaccine or LFT) aren’t ideal but they might be the best thing we have to reopen without a genuine two tier society 

I don't think it's necessary but it seems now we need every single adult vaccinated, and if we really need to keep unvaccinated away then yes, unfortunately you only open to those that have had one or two or whatever) Furlough is still there, give some more targeted financial support to the sectors affected and we all just have to suck it up. Half measures will lead to another spike in the under 30s (by June that's all it'll be) which sounds like the end of the world obviously. 

I still don't believe it makes anyone any safer though so self reporting sounds great

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I do think all this talk of summer holidays abroad not happening it to prop up the domestic tourism industry, on the basis that international tourism will be inevitably be down anyway, so we need UK people to holiday in the UK.

It's also ridiculous as loads of us don't have kids and can easily go on holiday in September/October and there's still plenty of warm places if that's your jam. I keep reading this "no foreign holidays in 2021" and worry and then see it's just talking about "summer".

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Did my second volunteering shift yesterday, which was again quiet late in the day but no more than the week before. The centre I'm at seems to be a lot busier in the mornings. Was a good day, though, and really great to see such a great mix of ethnicities and nationalities coming through for the jab. East London so probably a bit biased but there seems to be a very diverse mix.

There's always a few people hanging around all afternoon waiting for leftovers. Heard yesterday that most of these are foreign nationals under 50 who are hoping to get the jab to travel home over summer to see family and friends. Can see why it would be worth waiting for that. I do feel very lucky to have had it.

I have a shift confirmed next Wednesday and some requests put in for April and May, but nothing else confirmed yet. Guess I will see what's needed!

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1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

I don't think it's necessary but it seems now we need every single adult vaccinated, and if we really need to keep unvaccinated away then yes, unfortunately you only open to those that have had one or two or whatever) Furlough is still there, give some more targeted financial support to the sectors affected and we all just have to suck it up. Half measures will lead to another spike in the under 30s (by June that's all it'll be) which sounds like the end of the world obviously. 

I still don't believe it makes anyone any safer though so self reporting sounds great

Well then I’m glad you’re not in charge of running the country. You usually provide really good musings on here but I can’t agree with a two tier society.

 

LFT passports are such an easy workaround. 

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4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

I don't disagree demand will be high but it's not every single person by a long shot. I'm not going to pubs, gigs etc. until I'm vaccinated. I've waited a year, I'll wait the extra month or so - even a bit longer if it means redirecting doses to the EU to save lives. 

That makes sense. I'm only going to do outdoors but I really have no issues with that- I did it last summer and it felt like a good middle ground. And that was before masks were mandatory inside when moving around (i still wore one though, got a lot of funny looks and comments from staff that I didn't need to!)

At least I was hoping to go to them next month, let's see 😂

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I still don't think the vaccine passports will happen domestically (think they're likely for foreign travel). Not only will there be tons of opposition from both politicians and the sectors involved, but the admin task is immense. No one who has been vaccinated has one yet, so they'd need to backlog to all of them before even starting to keep up with the current lot. Given how test and trace went I'm very sceptical of it being achieved. Waste of money too in my eyes. If cases are down and majority are vaccinated I don't think it's necessary.

Edited by Zoo Music Girl
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5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well then I’m glad you’re not in charge of running the country. You usually provide really good musings on here but I can’t agree with a two tier society.

 

LFT passports are such an easy workaround. 

Depends when they try to bring them in. Supply by mid May could be dicey!

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2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There's the vote in parliament today on extending the emergency covid legislation by another 6 months...it will pass, but might be quite a few tory mps who vote against.

Labour abstaining which is weird - it thought they were behind and and all measures against the virus. Not sure what's going on there 

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11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The more I think about it the more I think its all bollocks.  Its not realistically going to work.  And it feels incredibly easy to cheat.

I am losing faith in the concept.  Just reopen and if idiots want to skip the vaccine then they can play roulette with the virus.

Think the future of public life globally will be vaccine certificates/passports, that`s rather a done deal. Entrance testing and vaccination have only been the entrance steps for this official document. So after years you will get nowhere without this. Welcome to the new normality then.

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6 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

No one who has been vaccinated has one yet, so they'd need to backlog to all of them before even starting to keep up with the current lot.

There's ways to get there without a huge amount of admin. Albeit probably not foolproof ways, but the information does exist in a usable format - each dose goes on your NHS record, and so an app could be designed to tap into that. The existing NHS app already partially links to your GP record, though I don't know how many people actually use it.

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7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I will have the vaccine so I will be fine 🙂 

Just wondering how a small shop / restaurant etc checks people before they enter...  and how do you know I haven't just used my mates passport ?   Its probably at best just going to be a QR code.

What I have heard a QR code on the smartphone (they have to find a solution with Apple on that is what I heard as the Iphone System seems to work differently). Every country will decide on their own where, how to use it and what they make of the data, so it could be that you need one to get to a Shop/restaurant in the UK, but not in Spain or Italy.

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13 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I still don't think the vaccine passports will happen domestically (think they're likely for foreign travel). Not only will there be tons of opposition from both politicians and the sectors involved, but the admin task is immense. No one who has been vaccinated has one yet, so they'd need to backlog to all of them before even starting to keep up with the current lot. Given how test and trace went I'm very sceptical of it being achieved. Waste of money too in my eyes. If cases are down and majority are vaccinated I don't think it's necessary.

yeah, this...it's a massive thing to sort out for what will probably be a short term problem.

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10 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Labour abstaining which is weird - it thought they were behind and and all measures against the virus. Not sure what's going on there 

From what I gather I think they are supporting the continuation of the Coronavirus Act 2020 for a further six months, but abstaining on the roadmap and restrictions votes. 

The press seem to conflate the two, which are totally different.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Which would mean every shop need physical infrastructure at the door, people checking, or both.  

yeah sure, or such scanners at airports, which makes it all a bit expensive (specially for poorer countries), but at the end it will be less expensive than the whole pandemic had been.

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24 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

There's always a few people hanging around all afternoon waiting for leftovers. Heard yesterday that most of these are foreign nationals under 50 who are hoping to get the jab to travel home over summer to see family and friends.

That might trigger a few in this thread... 

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Just now, Barry Fish said:

I have it - you have to jump through hoops to get it working.  Its going to need a lot of work to use it for this purpose.

Sure - I'm just using it as an example that the principle of (some) medical information being delivered that way is established.

Here's a quick and dirty way an app based vaccine "passport" could be achieved, very quickly and without huge headaches:

- Sign in to App with a suitably strong combination of your Name, NHS number, Postcode, House Number, DoB, Registered GP - all of which the NHS record should have available. Even now not everyone will know their NHS number so can't rely on that alone. There's probably other identifiers on the record that could be used.

- App displays a simple set of responses - No vaccine, 1 dose, or 2 doses, and says whether the most recent dose was +/- 3 weeks. That should be easily enough to cover most risk scenarios and displays the minimum (required for this scenario) personal information.

- App generates+displays a code (MFA style) every ~1-5 minutes that can be used to validate that answer as being legitimate or not in scenarios where it's considered necessary to weed out fakes.

A relatively small team of developers could knock that up in a fairly short amount of time. It's nowhere near as complex as the contact tracing system.

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4 minutes ago, incident said:

Sure - I'm just using it as an example that the principle of (some) medical information being delivered that way is established.

Here's a quick and dirty way an app based vaccine "passport" could be achieved, very quickly and without huge headaches:

- Sign in to App with a suitably strong combination of your Name, NHS number, Postcode, House Number, DoB, Registered GP - all of which the NHS record should have available. Even now not everyone will know their NHS number so can't rely on that alone. There's probably other identifiers on the record that could be used.

- App displays a simple set of responses - No vaccine, 1 dose, or 2 doses, and says whether the most recent dose was +/- 3 weeks. That should be easily enough to cover most risk scenarios and displays the minimum (required for this scenario) personal information.

- App generates+displays a code (MFA style) every ~1-5 minutes that can be used to validate that answer as being legitimate or not in scenarios where it's considered necessary to weed out fakes.

A relatively small team of developers could knock that up in a fairly short amount of time. It's nowhere near as complex as the contact tracing system.

That will be £1billion to an MP's brother then. He'll have to learn how to code but how hard can it be eh...

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