When will this shit end?

[stuartbert two hats]

23 minutes ago, zahidf said:

But according to that guardian article, under 40s would be waiting and extra 2 months, whilst it would only speed the EU up by a week

Wouldn't many more lives be saved in the EU though?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Rex2 said:

Fair enough but what's the point if its going to sit in a fridge 

lets see how the latest push goes ... they've been shit but its equally important to get them going on help build confidence ... the arguments just do more damage and keep the topic hot ... when the hot topic should be successful jab numbers 

[JB15]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Get jabbing here

Why aren’t the EU demanding Israel give them some of their vaccines...?
i was (and am) a big remainer, but the EU countries are having a stinker. The U.K. have done one thing well this pandemic in taking risks in buying vaccines, and the EU nations can’t claim it’s not fair when they could have done the same. We all want countries to get on top of their vaccination programme, but the U.K. government’s main responsibility right now is to ensure the safety of its citizens (first time for everything!). I’d say other areas would need “our” vaccines more than the likes of France and Germany where take up on the AZ vaccine is low anyway 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

damage to the economy ? of which we still have an opening up plan ..... damage to mental health of which we will soon be able to meet friends and family once again .... the EU need supplies to be able to push the vaccine programmes ... no point having a big push and then saying sorry we cant deliver .... some of those held supplies do we know they arent held for second doses ? ..... our numbers of 1st doses will drop right down soon because some doses will be kept for second jabs 

I think you're underplaying the damage to the economy and mental health restrictions on distancing e.t.c causes. Getting away from any restrictions and being as free as Israel should be the UK government  top priority.

The number of doses I storage in France and Germany aren't supplies being kept behind for second doses

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Get jabbing here

There were live news broadcasts from Israel the other night because of the election there...and the correspondent was reporting from some sort of bar with loads of people in there having a drink and a good time, no masks, no social distancing. Looked pretty good.

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

There were live news broadcasts from Israel the other night because of the election there...and the correspondent was reporting from some sort of bar with loads of people in there having a drink and a good time, no masks, no social distancing. Looked pretty good.

What is this utopia you speak of?

[steviewevie]

Not sure why people need to keep qualifying criticism of EU vaccine rollout with them being a remainer.

[steviewevie]

Just now, JoeyT said:

What is this utopia you speak of?

Young beautiful Israelis though...not you're ugly english thug look.

[JoeyT]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Young beautiful Israelis though...not you're ugly english thug look.

to be fair you're not far off given my current covid haircut

[phimill]

Controversial opinion (possibly!) - if the UK and EU do come to a deal about the AZ deliveries. Should part of the agreement be that they can have some of the UK vaccine volumes from EU based AZ - based on using the current 17million or so that they have in warehouses first which aren't being used due to the misinformation campaigns from the likes of France and Germany?

Thus we continue our current supply levels at the moment - offsetting any additional reductions due to the India delays but while using the vaccines current in stock around EU, and then removing the blockade risk

Edited March 25, 2021 by phimill

[stuartbert two hats]

8 minutes ago, JB15 said:

Why aren’t the EU demanding Israel give them some of their vaccines...?
i was (and am) a big remainer, but the EU countries are having a stinker. The U.K. have done one thing well this pandemic in taking risks in buying vaccines, and the EU nations can’t claim it’s not fair when they could have done the same. We all want countries to get on top of their vaccination programme, but the U.K. government’s main responsibility right now is to ensure the safety of its citizens (first time for everything!). I’d say other areas would need “our” vaccines more than the likes of France and Germany where take up on the AZ vaccine is low anyway 

Is there an issue with Pfizer's delivery I'm not aware of?

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I think you're underplaying the damage to the economy and mental health restrictions on distancing e.t.c causes. Getting away from any restrictions and being as free as Israel should be the UK government  top priority.

The number of doses I storage in France and Germany aren't supplies being kept behind for second doses

Not at all that balance has always existed and the immediate health was taken as a priority ... and yep that’s a tough choice but these choices don’t just exist here ... Europeans also suffer the very same problems and choices , mental health does exist there too ... and whilst we start to improve slowly ... Europe starts to get deepening issues 

Edited March 25, 2021 by crazyfool1

[steviewevie]

Will a deal be struck...or does it suit both sides to keep relations bad?

[JoeyT]

2 minutes ago, phimill said:

Controversial opinion (possibly!) - if the UK and EU do come to a deal about the AZ deliveries. Should part of the agreement be that they can have some of the UK vaccine volumes from EU based AZ - based on using the current 17million or so that they have in warehouses first which aren't being used due to the misinformation campaigns from the likes of France and Germany?

Thus we continue our current supply levels at the moment - offsetting any additional reductions due to the India delays but while using the vaccines current in stock around EU, and then removing the blockade risk

I have a feeling that won't wash.

In the short term at least it will appear like the EU has "give in" to the UK and unfortunately I don't think they are prepared to look damaged even further.

I agree that mid - long term that scenario at least on the face of it seems best but I just don't think EU leaders want to concede an inch given the issues they have already had.

[zahidf]

Yanks also messing with AZN

 

[zahidf]

THANKS EU

 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

THANKS EU

 

Maybe give it to someone other than Astra Zeneca....

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe give it to someone other than Astra Zeneca....

lol they wont do it at cost

[steviewevie]

Interesting thread about France...vaccines vs variant

 

[Mr.Tease]

This is surprising as for most of last year the assumption was that it impacts men more severely than women and that it impacts older people more than younger (though I wonder if there's a difference in mortality rates that might explain it😞

Middle-aged women 'worst affected by long Covid', studies find

Middle-aged women experience the most severe, long-lasting symptoms after being treated in hospital for Covid-19, two UK studies suggest. 

Five months on, 70% of patients studied were still affected by everything from anxiety to breathlessness, fatigue, muscle pain and "brain fog".

But the researchers say there is no obvious link with how ill people originally became.

How women's bodies fight off illness could explain their poorer recovery.

The larger study - led by the University of Leicester - which is yet to be peer-reviewed, followed up more than 1,000 patients who had been admitted to hospital with Covid-19 in the UK last year. It found that up to 70% had not fully recovered, an average of five months after leaving hospital, with women most affected.

More than 400,000 people have been admitted to hospital with Covid in the UK since the start of the pandemic.

A separate smaller pre-print study, led by University of Glasgow, found women under 50 were seven times more likely to be more breathless, and twice as likely to report worse fatigue than men of the same age who had had the illness, seven months after hospital treatment.

In the Leicester study, these lasting 'long Covid' symptoms stopped 18% of people returning to work and forced 19% to change their job.

Despite patients receiving a range of hospital care - with most given antibiotics, one-third receiving oxygen and just over a quarter ending up in intensive care - even those who had had short hospital stays still had ongoing problems.

People who hadn't returned to normal health were more likely to be female, white, aged between approximately 40 and 60, have two or more underlying conditions, and been on a ventilator.

'Different immune response'

Dr Rachael Evans, an associate professor at the University of Leicester and respiratory consultant at Leicester's Hospitals, said, "much of the wide variety of persistent problems was not explained by the severity of the acute illness" - often characterised by lung damage.

This suggests other underlying factors may be at play, she added.

And among women, it was the middle-aged group which appeared to be worst affected by long-term health problems, while younger and older women recovered better.

Study author Dr Nazir Lone, consultant in critical care at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, said this could be because "older age groups are more likely to die" and so more younger, middle-aged women are more likely to survive with health issues.

But he also said it was possible women have "a different immune response to men". Men, however, are more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid in the first place.

.....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56509340

[Crazyfool01]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Interesting thread about France...vaccines vs variant

 

Some great news about the French increasing their vaccinations amongst that thread 

[Guest]

It does seem that countries in the EU are starting to pick up and improving their vaccination figures which is great to see. 

[st dan]

I don’t think the impact of long Covid can properly be assessed until lockdowns are over, and things are more back to ‘normal’. I think WFH and barely leaving the house can lead to brain fog, anxiety, fatigue, muscle ache etc, and it’s difficult to distinguish between which is which. I know it’s certainly the case for me at the moment.

Hopefully once normality returns then some of these symptoms will naturally and gradually disappear, although there will sadly be some left we true long lasting impacts to their health. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

This is surprising as for most of last year the assumption was that it impacts men more severely than women and that it impacts older people more than younger (though I wonder if there's a difference in mortality rates that might explain it😞

Middle-aged women 'worst affected by long Covid', studies find

Middle-aged women experience the most severe, long-lasting symptoms after being treated in hospital for Covid-19, two UK studies suggest. 

Five months on, 70% of patients studied were still affected by everything from anxiety to breathlessness, fatigue, muscle pain and "brain fog".

But the researchers say there is no obvious link with how ill people originally became.

How women's bodies fight off illness could explain their poorer recovery.

The larger study - led by the University of Leicester - which is yet to be peer-reviewed, followed up more than 1,000 patients who had been admitted to hospital with Covid-19 in the UK last year. It found that up to 70% had not fully recovered, an average of five months after leaving hospital, with women most affected.

More than 400,000 people have been admitted to hospital with Covid in the UK since the start of the pandemic.

A separate smaller pre-print study, led by University of Glasgow, found women under 50 were seven times more likely to be more breathless, and twice as likely to report worse fatigue than men of the same age who had had the illness, seven months after hospital treatment.

In the Leicester study, these lasting 'long Covid' symptoms stopped 18% of people returning to work and forced 19% to change their job.

Despite patients receiving a range of hospital care - with most given antibiotics, one-third receiving oxygen and just over a quarter ending up in intensive care - even those who had had short hospital stays still had ongoing problems.

People who hadn't returned to normal health were more likely to be female, white, aged between approximately 40 and 60, have two or more underlying conditions, and been on a ventilator.

'Different immune response'

Dr Rachael Evans, an associate professor at the University of Leicester and respiratory consultant at Leicester's Hospitals, said, "much of the wide variety of persistent problems was not explained by the severity of the acute illness" - often characterised by lung damage.

This suggests other underlying factors may be at play, she added.

And among women, it was the middle-aged group which appeared to be worst affected by long-term health problems, while younger and older women recovered better.

Study author Dr Nazir Lone, consultant in critical care at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, said this could be because "older age groups are more likely to die" and so more younger, middle-aged women are more likely to survive with health issues.

But he also said it was possible women have "a different immune response to men". Men, however, are more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid in the first place.

.....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56509340

For a long time Long-COVID was kind of not kind as much attention but as time goes on and more information becomes available it sounds like a really horrible, debilitating condition. It needs to be looked into ASAP and those people suffering given full support to help them. 

[Mr.Tease]

5 minutes ago, st dan said:

I don’t think the impact of long Covid can properly be assessed until lockdowns are over, and things are more back to ‘normal’. I think WFH and barely leaving the house can lead to brain fog, anxiety, fatigue, muscle ache etc, and it’s difficult to distinguish between which is which. I know it’s certainly the case for me at the moment.

Hopefully once normality returns then some of these symptoms will naturally and gradually disappear, although there will sadly be some left we true long lasting impacts to their health. 

It will indeed be a long while until we know, which must be hard for the sufferers of it. Brain fog and anxiety could be trauma related- certainly brain fog is very common following a bereavement or traumatic event, and in fact aI think a lot of people have developed it during the lockdown even if they haven't had covid- I know I have! 

To make sense of brain fog following a bereavement or highly stressful situation or trauma, think of your brain as being like a computer that's busy doing a big update in the background, and so the computer becomes sluggish and craps out when you try to browse the internet or save a file while its doing this big update- so essentially your brain is struggling to process the horrible event, and is attempting to do so out of your awareness (or in the background), leaving very little brain capacity free to do day to day stuff.