When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

 

 

One possible reason

 

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Copperface said:

Two parts to that which they've always recognised and made clear.

1. Infection rates have always had a direct correlation to hospital admission/capacity/deaths and 

2. Prevalence of the virus in circulation leads too increased chance of mutations and variants. 

They were saying both from early last year.

1. That will change as more and more people are vaccinated? Or at least the correlation won't matter as much as deaths etc will be so much lower

2. This will remain the case for years/ ever in various countries 

[MrBarry465]

14 minutes ago, st dan said:

I was thinking about this, and dug out my employee contract. Clause 3 of mine states:

‘Your place of work will be at the Company’s premises at ‘xxxxxxxxxxx’. You may be required from time to time to work at one of the Company’s other locations or alternative offices within reasonable travelling distance from your existing workplace on either a temporary or permanent basis.’

For me, I’m guessing they could insist that I must come back to the office based on the above, particularly the first sentence. Although I’m certain they won’t demand it and it will be a flexible conversation between me and my manager, and will vary on employee and their wishes. 

If there is any company worth their salt now, I really doubt they are going to force the issues you've listed above. Regardless, I actually don't think it's going to be a problem for a while yet - but maybe later in the year you need to have those conversations.

I'm fortunatley in a position for at least the next year or so, where if my company really forced me to come back into the office for 'reasons' I would just say thanks but no thanks and take my services elsewhere. 

[hodgey123]

8 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

That brings up all sorts of interesting economic questions.

Will demand for London decrease and therefore see a slowing of house prices? 

Will salary now be flat across the country? Would an employer now distinguish where the person lives rather the city the office is in.

 

Personally I hate WFH - for my job its far harder and im quite a social person.

Yeah, my firm in particular has many regional offices so if no pay cut was involved in permanent WFH that would  presumably cause them issues if the regional offices got wind of it. 
 

I prefer WFH purely on the basis that it shaves 2 hours off my day in commute. And I don’t have to get on the tube. If the office was next door I’d be in every day. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

Two parts to that which they've always recognised and made clear.

1. Infection rates have always had a direct correlation to hospital admission/capacity/deaths and 

2. Prevalence of the virus in circulation leads to increased chance of mutations and variants. 

They were saying both from early last year.

1 is now an irrelevance, and ceases to have any meaning in a vaccinated world.
(or at least, needs to be re-calculated in a vaccinated world - so past ideas have to be dumped)

2 = No shit sherlock, but isn't policy. If it was the govt wouldn't have pursued everything they have done in the same way for the last year. If you think the new 33-country quarantine can be aligned with that as an ongoing policy I have a bridge to sell you. Seems like you've already bought Spaffer's bridge.

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

My work has said WFH will continue full time for all employees “until the pandemic ends”

 

Not entirely sure what defines the end point of the pandemic.

 

They’re also giving everyone personalised options ranging from full time in the office to full time WFH. Most are leaning towards a hybrid model where they share a desk with someone on a different team. 

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

My work has said WFH will continue full time for all employees “until the pandemic ends”

 

Not entirely sure what defines the end point of the pandemic.

 

They’re also giving everyone personalised options ranging from full time in the office to full time WFH. Most are leaning towards a hybrid model where they share a desk with someone on a different team. 

I'd say the pandemic 'ends' when everyone has been fully vaccinated. I personally won't consider the pandemic 'over' in my world until I've been fully sorted. And thats around September. 

[st dan]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

My work has said WFH will continue full time for all employees “until the pandemic ends”

 

Not entirely sure what defines the end point of the pandemic.

 

They’re also giving everyone personalised options ranging from full time in the office to full time WFH. Most are leaning towards a hybrid model where they share a desk with someone on a different team. 

Yeah I think more or less every office will just move to hotdesking and ‘breakout zones’, and operate a policy of ‘turn up if you want, when you want’ type of thing. Which is fantastic for the work/life balance. Just a shame it took a pandemic for it to happen, but I think it would have taken another 5-10 years without it. 

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

Yeah I think more or less every office will just move to hotdesking and ‘breakout zones’, and operate a policy of ‘turn up if you want, when you want’ type of thing. Which is fantastic for the work/life balance. Just a shame it took a pandemic for it to happen, but I think it would have taken another 5-10 years without it. 

Yeah the pandemic has absolutely accelarated some things, which has been good in retrospect. 

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

1 is now an irrelevance, and ceases to have any meaning in a vaccinated world.
(or at least, needs to be re-calculated in a vaccinated world - so past ideas have to be dumped)

2 = No shit sherlock, but isn't policy. If it was the govt wouldn't have pursued everything they have done in the same way for the last year. If you think the new 33-country quarantine can be aligned with that as an ongoing policy I have a bridge to sell you. Seems like you've already bought Spaffer's bridge.

 

That may be true, but the fact still remains that rates were/are equally one of the five tests which was the point I was making to the initial assertion. 

They were bothered at certain stages with rates, in that they imposed varying tiers on different regions in response to rising/falling infection rates.

So the infection/R rate is recognised as key for two reasons.

But, apart from that, we're not a vaccinated country, let alone world, yet. UK and developed countries might get to a certain stage faster, but one country can't operate in isolation for long. Bit lost with the bridge thing.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, st dan said:

Yeah I think more or less every office will just move to hotdesking and ‘breakout zones’, and operate a policy of ‘turn up if you want, when you want’ type of thing. Which is fantastic for the work/life balance. Just a shame it took a pandemic for it to happen, but I think it would have taken another 5-10 years without it. 

That’s what my department at work are going to do when this is over which as you say is fantastic. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

That may be true, but the fact still remains that rates were/are equally one of the five tests which was the point I was making to the initial assertion. 

that's not a fact, that's just your assertion.

They were one of the tests. Now they're not.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

They were bothered at certain stages with rates, in that they imposed varying tiers on different regions in response to rising/falling infection rates.

because of the healthcare load directly related to case numbers, and how case numbers could quickly spiral out of control.

You're right that that used to matter.  It doesn't anymore. 

Unless I've missed the announcement of a zero-covid strategy?

[Copperface]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's not a fact, that's just your assertion.

They were one of the tests. Now they're not.

In that case, I was unaware that the five tests had been changed/lifted/altered.

Not sure when that was, but it still remains that infection rates were one of those tests.

If that has changed then I'll withdraw that.

Although this was dated 4th January and they still seemed valid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52634739

Edited February 17, 2021 by Copperface

[fraybentos1]

9 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I'd say the pandemic 'ends' when everyone has been fully vaccinated 

So never ?

[MrBarry465]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

So never ?

OK, let me rephrase - when everyone who 'wants' a vaccine has had both. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

But, apart from that, we're not a vaccinated country, let alone world, yet. UK and developed countries might get to a certain stage faster, but one country can't operate in isolation for long.

No shit sherlock.

So what you're saying is that the UK borders are open to welcome any and all variants and their effects onto case numbers - ohhh, I dunno, like last summer's Spanish variant - exactly the same policy as it's operated for all of the last year.

 

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Bit lost with the bridge thing.

You've bought the tory bullshit hook line and sinker, of claims of doing everything when it's as laughable now as it's always been.

 

[gooner1990]

12 minutes ago, st dan said:

Yeah I think more or less every office will just move to hotdesking and ‘breakout zones’, and operate a policy of ‘turn up if you want, when you want’ type of thing. Which is fantastic for the work/life balance. Just a shame it took a pandemic for it to happen, but I think it would have taken another 5-10 years without it. 

Ours isn’t.

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

No shit sherlock.

So what you're saying is that the UK borders are open to welcome any and all variants and their effects onto case numbers - ohhh, I dunno, like last summer's Spanish variant - exactly the same policy as it's operated for all of the last year.

 

You've bought the tory bullshit hook line and sinker, of claims of doing everything when it's as laughable now as it's always been.

 

Probably just me but I'm totally lost on both points.

i was making a really simple point that infection rates were and are a key metric. And that is all.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Copperface said:

In that case, I was unaware that the five tests had been changed/lifted/altered.

Not sure when that was, but it still remains that infection rates were one of those tests.

If that has changed then I'll withdraw that.

Although this was dated 4th January and they still seemed valid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52634739

Spaffer intends to say how everything is going to be opened up next week, and if case numbers are so important to him and a central diver of policy, why is he planning to make case numbers grow?

So yes, policy has changed. 

 

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Ours isn’t.

I think those that don’t adapt to this new way of working will see their best employees leave, and will struggle to recruit new talent in the future.
The 9-5 / 5 day a week has been officially killed I think, as people have had a year of tasting the new work/life balance and have seen the benefits it brings.    

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

i was making a really simple point that infection rates were and are a key metric. And that is all.

they're a key metric when 1000 infections equals approx one death.

They're not a key metric when that relationship is broken.

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

they're a key metric when 1000 infections equals approx one death.

They're not a key metric when that relationship is broken.

True. But the original assertion was that rates had never been publicised as one of those metrics, which was incorrect.

And even if the infection/death ratio is broken, the danger still remains of variants escaping the vaccination programme, so it remains important.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

True. But the original assertion was that rates had never been publicised as one of those metrics, which was incorrect.

when Spaffer says something but does something else, most people can see the lies.

 

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

And even if the infection/death ratio is broken, the danger still remains of variants escaping the vaccination programme, so it remains important.

If it was ever important the UK would not be pursuing the policies it has done.

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, eFestivals said:

when Spaffer says something but does something else, most people can see the lies.

It’s very easy to tell when Spaffer is lying. 
 

His lips are moving.