When will this shit end?

[efcfanwirral]

 

This probably explains the entire response. Every single one of them fully believes in the free market, so no dissenting views apart from scientists. Also will explain the background MPs not wanting lockdowns

Also raises the question about what is currently happening to the NHS being a positive thing to them. Politically it isn't great short term, but they only need 40% of the country to vote for them, many of which will whatever happens, so I'm sure they can scare/convince/lie to get enough to get it over the line again. With their private healthcare alternative 

I don't think Im saying they let it be overwhelmed on purpose but I do think they'll take full advantage of it

Edited January 8, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Truly brilliant analysis:

"The numbers will keep climbing for at least 2-3 wks. They will be people infected over Xmas period."

This prognosis stood out.

 

I read this and my instinctive thought is we need a new government in charge through this pandemic. Nearly all mistakes have been of their own making and this clusterfuck is due to them. It won’t happen of course but we need a different government.

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I read this and my instinctive thought is we need a new government in charge through this pandemic. Nearly all mistakes have been of their own making and this clusterfuck is due to them. It won’t happen of course but we need a different government.

Never know, if they keep it going to 2024 through some monumental fuck up (mutation due to their change in vaccination procedures or just by having so many cases) Labour might get in then...

[xxialac]

13 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I read this and my instinctive thought is we need a new government in charge through this pandemic. Nearly all mistakes have been of their own making and this clusterfuck is due to them. It won’t happen of course but we need a different government.

I've been thinking the same.

Or at least a national unity government that includes them, where politics are set to one side for a finite duration for the good of tackling this crisis.

The current government in charge is dysfunctional and lives are being lost unnecessarily.

Also, at some point post-pandemic, we need an early general election imo as the vaccine will turn out to be a temporary plaster for the underlying problems (sorry to mix metaphors) and given the seriousness of the issues facing the country, people will deserve the chance to express their view whether they want to stick with the Tories or to change.

Obviously won't happen as they'd stand down a no confidence vote as Johnson has packed the party with yes-men.

Edited January 8, 2021 by xxialac

[fraybentos1]

46 minutes ago, Copperface said:

We will. She also makes a point about not being comparable in terms of rollout to countries like Israel and that we shouldn't be judged on such comparisons.

You don't appear to agree with that as you have wielded your little downvote . 

https://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/topic/233675-when-will-this-shit-end/?do=findComment&comment=6061097

Back in your box. 

Imagine being this upset about a downvote on a festival forum lol.

Population size will be one of many factors that will influence roll out times. My point was I don't know how you're not bored of saying ten times a day that you don't think the February figure is realistic.  

[Copperface]

7 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Imagine being this upset about a downvote on a festival forum lol.

Population size will be one of many factors that will influence roll out times. My point was I don't know how you're not bored of saying ten times a day that you don't think the February figure is realistic.  

Just put me on ignore. It's easy. Really. Even for you.

[efcfanwirral]

Just to add to the fun:

 

Are we perhaps being saved from seeing the effects by the supermarket Christmas stockpiles? what happens in a couple of weeks?

 

[xxialac]

26 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Just to add to the fun:

 

Are we perhaps being saved from seeing the effects by the supermarket Christmas stockpiles? what happens in a couple of weeks?

 

Thank God the country has nothing else to focus on and we can put all our energies into tackling the biggest challenge to trade in decades.

Edited January 8, 2021 by xxialac

[FestivalJamie]

12 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Population size will be one of many factors that will influence roll out times. My point was I don't know how you're not bored of saying ten times a day that you don't think the February figure is realistic.  

Without getting into argument of whether February is realistic or not, I want to make the point that population size is not relevant. Lower population size means that you have less resources and less people to administer the logistics of the vaccine, less delivery drivers to transport the vaccine, less people to actually do the jabs. Also countries with lower populations will likely get lower and comparable proportions of vaccine compared to larger population countries.

This is why we look at vaccine doses per 100 people when we look at the stats. Every country is comparable when it comes to speed of vaccination, and so far countries like Denmark, Israel, UAE, Italy (and UK) have shown they can vaccinate at quite some pace.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I've been thinking the same.

Or at least a national unity government that includes them, where politics are set to one side for a finite duration for the good of tackling this crisis.

The current government in charge is dysfunctional and lives are being lost unnecessarily.

Also, at some point post-pandemic, we need an early general election imo as the vaccine will turn out to be a temporary plaster for the underlying problems (sorry to mix metaphors) and given the seriousness of the issues facing the country, people will deserve the chance to express their view whether they want to stick with the Tories or to change.

Obviously won't happen as they'd stand down a no confidence vote as Johnson has packed the party with yes-men.

Yeah a Government of National Unity is what’s needed, here’s how I would say we need it to go (completely unrealistic as it won’t happen but humour me):

- With cases, admissions and deaths rising a vote of no confidence is called in the HoC.

- MPs vote against the government and vote they have confidence in a government of national unity headed up by an MP that respected by both parties.

- GNU set about tackling the pandemic with a renewed trust in the public, transparency of decision making and vaccines increasing.

- At the end of the pandemic the PM sets out a timetable for the next General Election within 6 months from the pandemic ending.

- At the same the PM will immediately call for a full public enquiry into the handling of the pandemic in the UK with initial results to be made public before the General Election. 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah a Government of National Unity is what’s needed, here’s how I would say we need it to go (completely unrealistic as it won’t happen but humour me):

- With cases, admissions and deaths rising a vote of no confidence is called in the HoC.

- MPs vote against the government and vote they have confidence in a government of national unity headed up by an MP that respected by both parties.

- GNU set about tackling the pandemic with a renewed trust in the public, transparency of decision making and vaccines increasing.

- At the end of the pandemic the PM sets out a timetable for the next General Election within 6 months from the pandemic ending.

- At the same the PM will immediately call for a full public enquiry into the handling of the pandemic in the UK with initial results to be made public before the General Election. 

If you were a Tory would you want to do that or get another Tory in charge? Who's going to be PM? Tony Blair?

[Ryan1984]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah a Government of National Unity is what’s needed, here’s how I would say we need it to go (completely unrealistic as it won’t happen but humour me):

- With cases, admissions and deaths rising a vote of no confidence is called in the HoC.

- MPs vote against the government and vote they have confidence in a government of national unity headed up by an MP that respected by both parties.

- GNU set about tackling the pandemic with a renewed trust in the public, transparency of decision making and vaccines increasing.

- At the end of the pandemic the PM sets out a timetable for the next General Election within 6 months from the pandemic ending.

- At the same the PM will immediately call for a full public enquiry into the handling of the pandemic in the UK with initial results to be made public before the General Election. 

Who would the MP respected by both parties be? I can’t believe I’m typing this but Hunt would be one of the frontrunners!

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Without getting into argument of whether February is realistic or not, I want to make the point that population size is not relevant. Lower population size means that you have less resources and less people to administer the logistics of the vaccine, less delivery drivers to transport the vaccine, less people to actually do the jabs. Also countries with lower populations will likely get lower and comparable proportions of vaccine compared to larger population countries.

This is why we look at vaccine doses per 100 people when we look at the stats. Every country is comparable when it comes to speed of vaccination, and so far countries like Denmark, Israel, UAE, Italy (and UK) have shown they can vaccinate at quite some pace.

 

It definitely is relevant but as I say it is one of many factors. Iceland for example I'm sure will be able to get their population vaccinated in no time when they get going cause they only have 300k people. Other factors will be money of course, infrastructure, amount of vaccines ordered etc.

 

[FestivalJamie]

Really interesting for me too is to look at the efficiency so far of Denmark’s rollout. Apparently deliveries are being used up within 1-2 days of arrival, so they are just waiting for more supply as they are ahead of the game.

They are hoping and estimating to have the whole population vaccinated by 27. June. With the rate they are going at and how the pandemic has been handled so far in Denmark, I don’t distrust the government at all with this figure. Interesting and comparable though to say germany which doesn’t expect to start mass rollout until December 2021

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah a Government of National Unity is what’s needed, here’s how I would say we need it to go (completely unrealistic as it won’t happen but humour me):

- With cases, admissions and deaths rising a vote of no confidence is called in the HoC.

- MPs vote against the government and vote they have confidence in a government of national unity headed up by an MP that respected by both parties.

- GNU set about tackling the pandemic with a renewed trust in the public, transparency of decision making and vaccines increasing.

- At the end of the pandemic the PM sets out a timetable for the next General Election within 6 months from the pandemic ending.

- At the same the PM will immediately call for a full public enquiry into the handling of the pandemic in the UK with initial results to be made public before the General Election. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It definitely is relevant but as I say it is one of many factors. Iceland for example I'm sure will be able to get their population vaccinated in no time when they get going cause they only have 300k people. Other factors will be money of course, infrastructure, amount of vaccines ordered etc.

 

Exactly - like all the other country to country comparisons it's of limited use. 

Its not a race against other countries. Its not even a race at all. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

If you were a Tory would you want to do that or get another Tory in charge? Who's going to be PM? Tony Blair?

It couldn’t be Blair as the PM has to be an MP. It would probably have to be a Tory grandee that’s not a complete manic, or maybe an MP that’s in neither Con or Lab. Julian Lewis, he’s an independent currently after having the Tory whip removed.

The Tories would never go for it and throw away their majority though. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Ozanne

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I've been thinking the same.

Or at least a national unity government that includes them, where politics are set to one side for a finite duration for the good of tackling this crisis.

The current government in charge is dysfunctional and lives are being lost unnecessarily.

Also, at some point post-pandemic, we need an early general election imo as the vaccine will turn out to be a temporary plaster for the underlying problems (sorry to mix metaphors) and given the seriousness of the issues facing the country, people will deserve the chance to express their view whether they want to stick with the Tories or to change.

Obviously won't happen as they'd stand down a no confidence vote as Johnson has packed the party with yes-men.

all will be forgotten and forgiven by the summer.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It couldn’t be Blair and the PM has to be an MP. It would probably have to be a Tory grandee that’s not a complete manic, or maybe an MP that’s in neither Con or Lab. Julian Lewis, he’s an independent currently after having the Tory whip removed.

The Tories would never go for it and throw away their majority though. 

Put Whitty in charge,

[xxialac]

Awful story on fb: "I have just returned from the Co-op in the village. I was in the queue, behind a teenage boy who wasn’t wearing a facemask. His friend, also mask-free, was browsing the aisles. A third friend entered the store, also not wearing a mask. They did not stay a metre apart and exchanged high fives.

I mentioned to the teenager in the queue that he and his friends should be wearing masks. He said that they all had asthma. I replied that I also have asthma, but that in general this is not a reason to not wearing a mask.

He then replied that he’d already had Covid, so couldn’t get it again. I explained that we don’t know how long the antibodies last. I explained that I am a medical Consultant at (hospital redacted) and there is one available ventilator tonight. I explained that if he had a severe asthma attack, he might need a ventilator. He told me not to stress. I told him that if he could witness what was happening in the hospital at the moment, he would indeed stress. I burst into tears, in the queue, in front of everyone, to which he said “She looks like she’s getting emotional, she probably needs some nooky.” Nobody in Co-op backed me up.

Covid is real. The new variant is 70% more transmissible and is the main source of current infections in this area. The number of in-patients here with Covid has risen from 70 ten days ago to 210 today. We are predicting over 300 by next week. People, of all ages, are dying. Even more are suffering from “long-Covid”, a post-viral syndrome that last for many months and gives a myriad of symptoms, including severe fatigue. Covid can also lead to other life-changing complications, such as blood clots on the lungs. Those in hospital are not allowed visitors and suffer alone, without their loved ones at their sides."

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Without getting into argument of whether February is realistic or not, I want to make the point that population size is not relevant. Lower population size means that you have less resources and less people to administer the logistics of the vaccine, less delivery drivers to transport the vaccine, less people to actually do the jabs. Also countries with lower populations will likely get lower and comparable proportions of vaccine compared to larger population countries.

This is why we look at vaccine doses per 100 people when we look at the stats. Every country is comparable when it comes to speed of vaccination, and so far countries like Denmark, Israel, UAE, Italy (and UK) have shown they can vaccinate at quite some pace.

 

It's clearly not true that Israel or Iceland only has vaccine for a small proportion of the population.

And yes, smaller populations are easier. Iceland has a population similar to Bristol, and I've little doubt that population clusters of that size could sort themselves within a very short time (vaccine permitting).

[Copperface]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's clearly not true that Israel or Iceland only has vaccine for a small proportion of the population.

And yes, smaller populations are easier. Iceland has a population similar to Bristol, and I've little doubt that population clusters of that size could sort themselves within a very short time (vaccine permitting).

Israel is also highly militarised and has a huge reservist percentage in the population, which is about the same size as London. They are all easily contactable and are able to mobilise quickly and relatively easily, and in a far more concentrated land mass than many. That makes any programme far easier to administer. They are also, in times of crisis, generally extremely united and there is a massive political and public will to get this rollout under way. The organisation they show in times of military crises is a natural fit for this programme. They're just operating from mass centres as well which streamlines the operation.

The problems they will have will be continued supply, and reluctance of both the ultra orthodox/Hasidic and Israeli Arab populations to engage  due to not having great confidence in government.

At full tilt with the entire country engaged they are aiming for about 150k per day.

 

 

[Toilet Duck]

2 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m pretty sure GSK/Sanofi is a dud though 

It’s not actually as bad as you think. Immune response in the 18-49 group was excellent, comparable to the ones we have approved. In the 50-60 group it looked pretty decent too, but it dropped off a good bit in the over 60s (which is obviously the highest risk group). They had some signals in the data for tweaking the combination with the immune booster part, so have gone back to reformulate. So, not gone yet, but closer to Q4 2021 before it starts looking for approval (was only planned to be ready for Summer 2021 in the first place, so it’s a 6 month set back maybe). Obviously still not guaranteed (we’ve just become a bit accustomed to them all working, which is very unusual, but all the front-runners are newer genetic vaccines and we didn’t really know how well they might work til now whereas the GSK/Sanofi one was a re-tooled version of their flu shot). 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

Israel is also highly militarised and has a huge reservist percentage in the population, which is about the same size as London. They are all easily contactable and are able to mobilise quickly and relatively easily, and in a far more concentrated land mass than many. That makes any programme far easier to administer. They are also, in times of crisis, generally extremely united and there is a massive political and public will to get this rollout under way. The organisation they show in times of military crises is a natural fit for this programme. They're just operating from mass centres as well which streamlines the operation.

The problems they will have will be continued supply, and reluctance of both the ultra orthodox/Hasidic and Israeli Arab populations to engage  due to not having great confidence in government.

At full tilt with the entire country engaged they are aiming for about 150k per day.

 

 

I wonder if Israel are having people wait 15 minutes after the jab before they leave. Not having to do that would probably speed things up a lot.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I wonder if Israel are having people wait 15 minutes after the jab before they leave. Not having to do that would probably speed things up a lot.

There is a valid reason for that though it's not just for a laugh.