When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

Roads really busy in Manchester...I guess people rushing about before being locked down.

[efcfanwirral]

Edited - got taken in by a conspiracy theory again 

Edited November 4, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[stuartbert two hats]

19 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Bit of a step back today, but not as sharp a week on week rise %wise as Monday..

 

Although if you look at the rate compared to yesterday, we're actually seeing drops compared to yesterday.

Hopefully things will be showing clearer signs of improvement across the board in the next few days.

[Waterdeep]

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN27K1X6

'Health authorities found virus strains in humans and in mink which showed decreased sensitivity against antibodies, potentially lowering the efficacy of future vaccines, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said at a press conference.'

There have been mutations that weren't supposed to have any effect on the vaccines, is this different? Hopefully not and they're just being extra cautious.

[gizmoman]

23 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/9253/pdf/

Worth a read - written evidence to the government recommending a compulsory vaccination program. Assume it'll be "enforced" by not actually being able to do anything without proof of it? 

Only question really is what do they do in the weeks/months between first and last vaccinations while also saving the economy...those least at risk are most likely to go out and spend so it'd be a tough one to keep the money flowing while also not letting people do stuff until vaccination. 

Glad I'm not making these decisions anyway, this will be the hardest one!

Worth a read? It should be read by everyone, these people are psychopaths using any argument they can think of to try to force vaccinations on everyone. Their argument that because we can force the severely mentally ill to have treatment it is therefore o.k. to force people to have a vaccine is rediculous, they are comparing forcing treatment on seriously ill people incapable of judgement to forcing treatment on the perfectly healthy who are in a position to judge whether the treatment is appropriate for them or not. There is no valid justification for this.

When I and others warned that this was the plan at the beginning of this we were called conspiracy theorists, yet here we are with parliament conspiring to find reasons to vaccinate everyone. Where are the dissenting voices in this report? It is a completely one sided argument.

Thanks efcfanwirral for linking it, I hadn't seen it and I wish I hadn't have to.

[Chapple12345]

My local news has been reporting that Boris will have a much harder time convincing Tories to extend the lockdown should they need to come 2nd December 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

My local news has been reporting that Boris will have a much harder time convincing Tories to extend the lockdown should they need to come 2nd December 

in the end it will probably depend on hospitalisation stats.

Edited November 4, 2020 by steviewevie

[xxialac]

500 dead today. What a disaster.

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

My local news has been reporting that Boris will have a much harder time convincing Tories to extend the lockdown should they need to come 2nd December 

I'm expecting shops but not hospitality to reopen on the 2nd.

After all, for many people cancelling Xmas shopping is the same as cancelling Xmas.

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm expecting shops but not hospitality to reopen on the 2nd.

After all, for many people cancelling Xmas shopping is the same as cancelling Xmas.

I’d agree ... no way shops will stay closed in that last run up to xmas ... it’s just too important ... golden quarter missed if they do ... I can’t see any non essential shops being able to survive if it goes on past the 2nd 

[efcfanwirral]

56 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Worth a read? It should be read by everyone, these people are psychopaths using any argument they can think of to try to force vaccinations on everyone. Their argument that because we can force the severely mentally ill to have treatment it is therefore o.k. to force people to have a vaccine is rediculous, they are comparing forcing treatment on seriously ill people incapable of judgement to forcing treatment on the perfectly healthy who are in a position to judge whether the treatment is appropriate for them or not. There is no valid justification for this.

When I and others warned that this was the plan at the beginning of this we were called conspiracy theorists, yet here we are with parliament conspiring to find reasons to vaccinate everyone. Where are the dissenting voices in this report? It is a completely one sided argument.

Thanks efcfanwirral for linking it, I hadn't seen it and I wish I hadn't have to.

 I found it because I follow some of the dissenting voice scientist types on twitter - he linked it. Otherwise none of us would ever know, it's not hit the media at all from what I can tell. 

It is worrying but people want a way out so its happening- as you say its been the exit plan all along 

[Copperface]

27 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 I found it because I follow some of the dissenting voice scientist types on twitter - he linked it. Otherwise none of us would ever know, it's not hit the media at all from what I can tell. 

It is worrying but people want a way out so its happening- as you say its been the exit plan all along 

The problem with what you have linked is that it only a fraction of the original paper, published by these academics from an ethics institution. The authors are not doctors, and if you take the time to read the complete paper, not the abridged, truncated and partial version above then you will see that they actually conclude something very different.

Would be useful if the KBF conspiracists would read the whole thing, not just bits that they can project onto.

Attached 

medethics-2020-106435.full.pdf

Edited November 4, 2020 by Copperface

[efcfanwirral]

17 minutes ago, Copperface said:

The problem with what you have linked is that it only a fraction of the original paper, published by these academics from an ethics institution. The authors are not doctors, and if you take the time to read the complete paper, not the abridged, truncated and partial version above then you will see that they actually conclude something very different.

Would be useful if the KBF conspiracists would read the whole thing, not just bits that that can project onto.

Attached 

medethics-2020-106435.full.pdfUnavailable

Fair enough - edited the original post to avoid misleading people

Still believe we'll all be vaccinated by this time next year though

[gizmoman]

20 minutes ago, Copperface said:

The problem with what you have linked is that it only a fraction of the original paper, published by these academics from an ethics institution. The authors are not doctors, and if you take the time to read the complete paper, not the abridged, truncated and partial version above then you will see that they actually conclude something very different.

Would be useful if the KBF conspiracists would read the whole thing, not just bits that that can project onto.

Attached 

medethics-2020-106435.full.pdfUnavailable

This isn't the paper considered by parliament, it is an expanded paper that makes the same argument, how does the conclusion differ? These authors have been making these same recommendations in articles for the last 6 months, they clearly have an agenda.

Compulsory treatment or vaccination versus quarantine | Journal of Medical Ethics blog

[st dan]

Just realised the shops are shut over Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend. That could be the final nail for a number of street shops. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, st dan said:

Just realised the shops are shut over Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend. That could be the final nail for a number of street shops. 

could they not do some kind of impromptu event later after reopening ? I dont know how much profit these events actually create ...? I know many have actually stopped doing them 

[Ozanne]

It's just pushing the rush to online trading even more. The high street in a decade won't be as it is now.

[gizmoman]

41 minutes ago, Copperface said:

The problem with what you have linked is that it only a fraction of the original paper, published by these academics from an ethics institution. The authors are not doctors, and if you take the time to read the complete paper, not the abridged, truncated and partial version above then you will see that they actually conclude something very different.

Would be useful if the KBF conspiracists would read the whole thing, not just bits that they can project onto.

Attached 

medethics-2020-106435.full.pdfUnavailable

Thomas Douglas is, maybe you should read a bit more before jumping to conclusions.

[Copperface]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Thomas Douglas is, maybe you should read a bit more before jumping to conclusions.

No, he is not. He trained as a doctor in NZ  and qualified in 2003 but never practised. https://sites.google.com/view/tomdouglas

[gizmoman]

2 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

Edited - got taken in by a conspiracy theory again 

You linked to a document on the uk parliament website, it WAS the complete document despite what copperface said, how is that in any way conspiracy? The document is quite clear- it recommends (or at least sees no reason not to do) compulsory vaccination.

 

[gizmoman]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

No, he is not. He trained as a doctor in NZ  and qualified in 2003 but never practised. https://sites.google.com/view/tomdouglas

"Tom initially qualified as a medical doctor at the University of Otago (New Zealand)"

He's a qualified medical doctor, with his dubious ethics it's maybe just as well he never had patients.

[Copperface]

24 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

"Tom initially qualified as a medical doctor at the University of Otago (New Zealand)"

He's a qualified medical doctor, with his dubious ethics it's maybe just as well he never had patients.

Without going too far into this as it is pointless and a waste of time and space, he got a medical degree - never registered or practised. Not a doctor. 

[gizmoman]

13 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Without going too far into this as it is pointless and a waste of time and space, he got a medical degree - never registered or practised. Not a doctor. 

In which case he is even less qualified to present an opinion to parliament on this matter, you would have thought it more appropriate to listen to actual experts in medicine and law, ex attorney generals etc. rather than a group of young philosophy geeks. Rather a coincidence they are from the same university that is developing the vaccine and are funded by the Wellcome trust who's head just happens to be on Sage. This whole thing is just too incestuous, all the players connected, money going to friends of politicians etc. No one seems to care, it's all conspiracy theory.

[zahidf]

Lol what?

 

[zahidf]

Sun reports that furlough scheme will be extended for any area in tier 3