When will this shit end?

[gigpusher]

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

The Tories are arseholes for how they're handling it obviously, but doesn't stuff like this defeat the whole point? I mean, it's stupid that they're differentiating between pubs that serve food and those that don't, because the virus doesn't care. But the reason for doing that must clearly be to try and close a certain portion of pubs to reduce spread.

This is an ingenius idea for beating the government proposals, but it seems like everyone did this they'd have to concede and just shut down all pubs instead. Because COVID doesn't care how ingenius your idea for getting round the rules is.

It seems to be the Tories are trying to kill us off anyway whether it's COVID, Mental health or poverty. People can't live without money. Grub Mcr have been incredibly sensible throughout this entire pandemic providing food parcels etc for people shielding. They have been sticklers for making sure people stick to social distancing rules and not mixing households etc. They are just trying to help people make a living. 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Hancock saying the 60m is still available if Manchester want it now. I know they wanted 65m. Didn't the government take it away entirely yesterday? Is this them trying to row back a bit after seeing the negative reactions?

It was always apparently on the table, Johnson just never explicitly stated it even though he was asked 5 times. Hancock had to clarify it in the Commons later in the evening. 

[st dan]

One of the ‘flaws’ that I have with the tiered system is that once an area enters Tier 3, then then get localised widespread testing available, which on one hand is great as it’s allowing more asymptomatic people the opportunity to test and then isolate, but at the same time it also significantly increases the rates in those areas by the now famous ‘more testing, more cases’ logic. Which will therefore keep them in the higher Tier for longer. 

I’m convinced that if testing was as widespread in London for example, you would then see a huge increase in the rates there too. But we all know they’ll do anything possible to stop Tier 3 happening there. 

[MEGABOWL]

10 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

He’s right. And there’s a shocking realisation coming over the next few months.

[Fuzzy Afro]

26 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Does anyone know what the cases per 100,000 have to be for entry into tiers 2 & 3?

I think it’s done more by the ONS report and hospitalisations because testing capacity isn’t uniform across the country (Sadiq Khan, for example, is convinced the situation in London is significantly worse than the cases per 100k would indicate) 

[st dan]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gyms-liverpool-city-region-reopen-19139097

Also looks like gyms are reopening in Liverpool City Region - great news. Add that to the U turn list!

[Fuzzy Afro]

Gyms reopening in Liverpool, much to the annoyance of those who have a weird boner for strict lockdown rules. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

18 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It was always apparently on the table, Johnson just never explicitly stated it even though he was asked 5 times. Hancock had to clarify it in the Commons later in the evening. 

Ah missed this. Thanks!

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gyms-liverpool-city-region-reopen-19139097

Also looks like gyms are reopening in Liverpool City Region - great news. Add that to the U turn list!

It’s good to see they are trying to get some level of consistency to the rules.

[eFestivals]

47 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Although JVT  seems to have changed course slightly ... 

JVT completely contradicted himself yesterday.

He said that lockdowns are best done when cases are low, and then said that the south west shouldn't be locked down because cases are low.

He's definitely Spaffer's man.

[st dan]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

It’s good to see they are trying to get some level of consistency to the rules.

Yep, I think it also goes to show they had no justification in shutting them in the first place.
Again, it is a sign of just how weak this Government is - putting things out there without scientific reasons why they’re doing so, and then just caving at any sign of challenge to it. 

[stuartbert two hats]

41 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Does anyone know what the cases per 100,000 have to be for entry into tiers 2 & 3?

Nobody knows.

Edited October 21, 2020 by stuartbert two hats

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, st dan said:

Yep, I think it also goes to show they had no justification in shutting them in the first place.
Again, it is a sign of just how weak this Government is - putting things out there without scientific reasons why they’re doing so, and then just caving at any sign of challenge to it. 

Plus they also find the weirdest hills to die on - free school meals for kids. 

[Quark]

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think the whole Manchester debacle was supposed to act as a bit of a warning too. Basically trying to deter any other local leaders from arguing with them. 

The cynic in me says that the cross-party approach in GM is a factor as well.  Clear message to local Tory MPs arguing for their constituencies that if you don't toe the party line, this is what you get.  Johnson's approach is based on blind loyalty, and this is what happens if you stray from that path.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Quark

[Fuzzy Afro]

7 minutes ago, st dan said:

Yep, I think it also goes to show they had no justification in shutting them in the first place.
Again, it is a sign of just how weak this Government is - putting things out there without scientific reasons why they’re doing so, and then just caving at any sign of challenge to it. 

Was always a dumb move to slightly (at best) mitigate one health crisis by significantly worsening another more serious health crisis.

 

Far more people die every year due to obesity. 

[gigpusher]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

The cynic in me says that the cross-party approach in GM is a factor as well.  Clear message to local Tory MPs arguing for their constituencies that if you don't toe the party line, this is what you get.  Johnson's approach is based on blind loyalty, and this is what happens if you stray from that path.

Does anyone remember when Danny Wallace started a country from his flat but it grew and he had quite a following after a while. Why does it feel like BoJo is trying to do that in reverse. He's started off with United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and will finish with the United Kingdom of 10 Downing Street, Tory donors and People too stubborn to admit Brexit was a bad idea. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Interesting that South Yorkshire is the first Tier 3 region where restaurants are being closed. It’ll be interesting to see if those areas perform better than the regions where restaurants have stayed open. 

[Quark]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Was always a dumb move to slightly (at best) mitigate one health crisis by significantly worsening another more serious health crisis.

 

Far more people die every year due to obesity. 

The dumb move was to handle this in a completely half-arsed manner as they have done.  Mitigating the impact of covid was absolutely the right thing to do, but what they've since done is to completely waste the time and space that first effort bought us.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

Interesting that South Yorkshire is the first Tier 3 region where restaurants are being closed. It’ll be interesting to see if those areas perform better than the regions where restaurants have stayed open. 

Ignore this, I read incorrect information. 

[DeanoL]

43 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I'm not aware of Burnham saying he didn't want a lockdown, just that there needed to be enough support.

Yeah but the position was always "there needs to be enough support or we won't do it". It's why he never had a strong position to negotiate from in the first place - it was effectively "give us the funding or I'll let the people start dying".

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Quark said:

The dumb move was to handle this in a completely half-arsed manner as they have done.  Mitigating the impact of covid was absolutely the right thing to do, but what they've since done is to completely waste the time and space that first effort bought us.

Well yeah, but mitigating it by worsening obesity wasn’t the right way to go about it. People have spent years working on their immune systems and as a result these people are in really good shape to win their personal battle against covid as and when they fight it, but it would be heinous to deny the future battlers of Covid-29 or Covid-39 the chance to build up the necessary immune systems to defeat those pandemics (which may be more aggressive than the current one lest we forget) 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Out of that group, who was in the clinically extremely vulnerable shielding group previously? I think only those people would actually need to shield, whereas everyone else would still be expected to triumph over the virus should they contract it. 

I would still just shield anyway though. So would loads of people. So economy is fucked regardless.

It'd be awful for people that didn't have a choice though.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, DeanoL said:

I would still just shield anyway though. So would loads of people. So economy is fucked regardless.

It'd be awful for people that didn't have a choice though.

Why would you do that? 

[DeanoL]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

Why would you do that? 

So I didn't get the virus and get really ill or die. Or pass it on to someone I love who could get really ill and die. 

I'm not living my best life at the moment but still able to do 75% of what I did before. It's not a problem for me to keep doing it, especially as I'll be able to get a vaccine soon. Another 6-12 months of this is nothing.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

So I didn't get the virus and get really ill or die. Or pass it on to someone I love who could get really ill and die. 

I'm not living my best life at the moment but still able to do 75% of what I did before. It's not a problem for me to keep doing it, especially as I'll be able to get a vaccine soon. Another 6-12 months of this is nothing.

The idea is the 3%-4% of people who “get really ill or die” from covid are shielding anyway. Btw, I’m talking about combining shielding with things like working from home and the rule of 6 for the remaining 96%-97% to try and keep the R number down. I’m not suggesting that we lock a few vulnerable folk away and let the virus run rampant. But we can keep deaths down and still have shreds of normality without a total lockdown IMO.