When will this shit end?

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

When do after effects of the jab usually kick in? I'm 19 hours in and absolutely nothing so far 👌🏻

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

When do after effects of the jab usually kick in? I'm 19 hours in and absolutely nothing so far 👌🏻

between 12 and 24 hours.

[efcfanwirral]

42 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I understand the concern that people have, but there is a real risk of SAGE scientists opening themselves up to becoming distributed by the public. Surely someone who studies viruses all day would understand that the zero covid goal for a virus with this makeup is unlikely to happen and not necessary. Also, that most people want to move out of this new normal and embrace studies and pilots to help this progress. 

It's going to get extremely tiring seeing and hearing comments like “here comes lock down 4” when I'm stood in that Pilton field... 😂

I think perception of proportionate risk has gone out the window. Statistics clearly show that younger people are at extremely low risk but there seems to be a huge amount who think everyone needs to be vaccinated before we're allowed normal things even if testing is involved 

Once say down to 35 (and I'm being generous) are vaccinated the NHS will be no longer close to any threat, the vulnerable (and I'm talking 40 up) will be protected from hospitalisation and many with two vaccinations, yet many people are moaning that mainly outdoor events in the height of summer WITH TESTS will be some kind of apocalyptic scenario unless everyone is vaccinated. Fair enough if it was winter, but we've got a few months grace period here where maybe we can have a bit of a go at some normality before we put the NHS under strain again (not just for covid reasons) 

And on the India argument in India 10% of the population is vaccinated, so with no oxygen and larger absolute numbers it will clearly affect larger absolute numbers of younger people but by the time we get to summer surely it should be personal risk if we're younger but not fully vaccinated? Especially if we have to test anyway 

Edited May 1, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[JoeyT]

 

[Matt42]

31 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I think perception of proportionate risk has gone out the window. Statistics clearly show that younger people are at extremely low risk but there seems to be a huge amount who think everyone needs to be vaccinated before we're allowed normal things even if testing is involved 

Once say down to 35 (and I'm being generous) are vaccinated the NHS will be no longer close to any threat, the vulnerable (and I'm talking 40 up) will be protected from hospitalisation and many with two vaccinations, yet many people are moaning that mainly outdoor events in the height of summer WITH TESTS will be some kind of apocalyptic scenario unless everyone is vaccinated. Fair enough if it was winter, but we've got a few months grace period here where maybe we can have a bit of a go at some normality before we put the NHS under strain again (not just for covid reasons) 

And on the India argument in India 10% of the population is vaccinated, so with no oxygen and larger absolute numbers it will clearly affect larger absolute numbers of younger people but by the time we get to summer surely it should be personal risk if we're younger but not fully vaccinated? Especially if we have to test anyway 

Yeah completely. I have a feeling it’s more to do with people being slow to change and prone to anxiety. I understand it’s going to be another large cultural shift going from no gatherings to gatherings allowed, but we shouldn’t listen to these people. Instead we should let them move at their own pace.

Personally, I am ready to go to the second it’s allowed. I’d go to a festival tomorrow. I’ve seen enough to believe that we really are at the end of the virus. Things may get tougher in winter but we will have booster jabs available to those who need them. People are forgetting that we won't go back to square one with a winter spike.

I understand people are still going to be hesitant because we’ve had a tough year or so, but I really think this epidemic in the UK is over. Pandemic will take a long time to end as it will still be an issue in less developed countries, but we shouldn’t remain in lockdown because other countries are not where we are - NZ and AUS haven’t done this!

I did see some ridiculous take on Twitter that the event in Liverpool was disrespectful to the country of India 😂

Edited May 1, 2021 by Matt42

[zahidf]

Lol what?

 

[efcfanwirral]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Lol what?

 

Surprised its taken so long for this suggestion. Could see it to be honest for gigs 

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, thewayiam said:

No really. If it wasn't safe when everyone has had a first dose then there might be an arguement. But until that point it's a false claim. 

I'm going to agree with both of you:

It does seem like a safe and sensible time to run an event like this, especially with a largely unvaccinated audience, valuable data can be gathered about how the virus will spread in these circumstances and how much we can actually rely on lateral flow tests beforehand to prevent spread.

Having an unvaccinated audience can act as a proxy for a more virulent variant at large with a vaccinated population - we can find out how bad things could get. Such an event will be a rich source of data.

Last year people were talking about "learning to live with the virus" when they really meant bury your head in the ground and carry on as if there wasn't a virus. It wasn't the time to experiment, it was the time to lock down and wait for vaccines. But now cases are low and the most vulnerable are vaccinated - it is the right time to learn.

And yet, the argument that if it's not safe now than it never will doesn't really wash, when there's a very obvious thing missing - the vast majority of those in attendance aren't vaccinated. Things are good now, but they're not as good as they can and will get.

[El Matador]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Interesting and grim thread/article about lost years to covid.

 

Can that really be true that the average victim would have lived for another 10 years? Median age of covid victims in the UK is 83 according to the ONS.

[Matt42]

23 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Who dreams this up?

Independent SAGE who have probably never attended a sporting event in their life.

[Matt42]

22 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I'm going to agree with both of you:

It does seem like a safe and sensible time to run an event like this, especially with a largely unvaccinated audience, valuable data can be gathered about how the virus will spread in these circumstances and how much we can actually rely on lateral flow tests beforehand to prevent spread.

Having an unvaccinated audience can act as a proxy for a more virulent variant at large with a vaccinated population - we can find out how bad things could get. Such an event will be a rich source of data.

Last year people were talking about "learning to live with the virus" when they really meant bury your head in the ground and carry on as if there wasn't a virus. It wasn't the time to experiment, it was the time to lock down and wait for vaccines. But now cases are low and the most vulnerable are vaccinated - it is the right time to learn.

And yet, the argument that if it's not safe now than it never will doesn't really wash, when there's a very obvious thing missing - the vast majority of those in attendance aren't vaccinated. Things are good now, but they're not as good as they can and will get.

Yeah I think this data will be useful when it comes to the point where booster vaccines are discussed. I.E do young people need one?

I have a feeling the booster vaccine will be similar to the flu jab. Highly encouraged but not essential for youngsters.

[stuartbert two hats]

For those interested in side effects:

I was jabbed about 14:00 on Thursday, felt a little odd that evening with an uncomfortably tingly arm. Friday was rather unpleasant, but by no means as bad as some bouts of flu or hangovers. I tried to sleep during the day, but couldn't until late afternoon. Top of the arm was sore, but not red or swollen.

Woke today feeling absolutely fine, in fact better than normal - probably due to the day of bedrest and an early night.

If it wasn't for the (now only very slightly) sore arm, I wouldn't have known that anything had happened.

[thewayiam]

27 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I'm going to agree with both of you:

It does seem like a safe and sensible time to run an event like this, especially with a largely unvaccinated audience, valuable data can be gathered about how the virus will spread in these circumstances and how much we can actually rely on lateral flow tests beforehand to prevent spread.

Having an unvaccinated audience can act as a proxy for a more virulent variant at large with a vaccinated population - we can find out how bad things could get. Such an event will be a rich source of data.

Last year people were talking about "learning to live with the virus" when they really meant bury your head in the ground and carry on as if there wasn't a virus. It wasn't the time to experiment, it was the time to lock down and wait for vaccines. But now cases are low and the most vulnerable are vaccinated - it is the right time to learn.

And yet, the argument that if it's not safe now than it never will doesn't really wash, when there's a very obvious thing missing - the vast majority of those in attendance aren't vaccinated. Things are good now, but they're not as good as they can and will get.

One big thing to remember here is that lateral tests aren't always concrete. Apparently there was a plane full of passengers from india....all tested negative through lateral flow but were positive on arrival.

Vaccinate everyone 18 and over first and then try this. I'm not to change my stance on this and I don't see however much a view is seen as alternative that this can be wrong.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, thewayiam said:

One big thing to remember here is that lateral tests aren't always concrete. Apparently there was a plane full of passengers from india....all tested negative through lateral flow but were positive on arrival.

Vaccinate everyone 18 and over first and then try this. I'm not to change my stance on this and I don't see however much a view is seen as alternative that this can be wrong.

And that's part of it - this will give us an idea on how useful lateral flow tests are for preparing for events. If we don't gather data now, then we might be flying blind if hit by a variant. Cases are pretty low and young people are at a pretty low risk.

 

[august1]

I was slightly worried about so many test events in Liverpool on one weekend.

But given cases rates are so low, 12 in 100,000. Current testing positivity in the city is 0.5%, plus how well the vaccine roll out is going. Not too concerned. Don't think much data will come out of it tbh. The two PCR tests are optionable, the lateral flow before is mandatory.  

 

[thewayiam]

12 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

And that's part of it - this will give us an idea on how useful lateral flow tests are for preparing for events. If we don't gather data now, then we might be flying blind if hit by a variant. Cases are pretty low and young people are at a pretty low risk.

 

They aren't basically. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

17 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

One big thing to remember here is that lateral tests aren't always concrete. Apparently there was a plane full of passengers from india....all tested negative through lateral flow but were positive on arrival.

Vaccinate everyone 18 and over first and then try this. I'm not to change my stance on this and I don't see however much a view is seen as alternative that this can be wrong.

The difference is India is completely riddled with covid whereas literally 1-in-1000 people have it here. Even if you didn’t do the LFT testing, you’d expect about 5 people in that crowd to have the virus, some of which won’t even be actively contagious. And then the LFT testing reduces that risk even further.

 

Staying locked down until everyone 18+ has been offered a vaccine is a dreadful idea for mental health, for the economy and for society. It probably WOULD save a tiny number of lives, but at an unacceptable trade off. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

I actually hate these Helen Lovejoy types lapping up fake SAGE nonsense so much. They are a poison to society. 

[Matt42]

8 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I actually hate these Helen Lovejoy types lapping up fake SAGE nonsense so much. They are a poison to society. 

Yes! Helen Lovejoy! Very much that energy.

They think they are echoing the views of vulnerable old people. I don’t know whose views they think they are representing - you have to fight my eldest to stop going down the pub / to the shops every day.

Old people want to be out and about too!

[fraybentos1]

3 hours ago, Matt42 said:

I’m getting concerned that there are an awful lot of people online, especially Twitter, who seem to not want to see visible progress or the world to go back to normal at all.

Yep I like to think that is just Twitter doing what Twitter does and showing the absolute extremes. If this pandemic had happened in 2005 I would probs never have heard of Indy Sage and I don't think I would have been missing out on much.

Real life stuff needs to come back and needs to come back soon.

[thewayiam]

13 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The difference is India is completely riddled with covid whereas literally 1-in-1000 people have it here. Even if you didn’t do the LFT testing, you’d expect about 5 people in that crowd to have the virus, some of which won’t even be actively contagious. And then the LFT testing reduces that risk even further.

 

Staying locked down until everyone 18+ has been offered a vaccine is a dreadful idea for mental health, for the economy and for society. It probably WOULD save a tiny number of lives, but at an unacceptable trade off. 

I didn't say to stay lockdown down though.

Also regardless of the India infections. If they were positive post flight they should have been before.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yep I like to think that is just Twitter doing what Twitter does and showing the absolute extremes. If this pandemic had happened in 2005 I would probs never have heard of Indy Sage and I don't think I would have been missing out on much.

Real life stuff needs to come back and needs to come back soon.

Luckily, it is coming back soon. We've been at this over a year and most things are opening in 4 weeks. That's soon.

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Luckily, it is coming back soon. We've been at this over a year and most things are opening in 4 weeks. That's soon.

Yeah for sure. And I am very excited for it. I just found some of the comments on the Liverpool trial a bit strange when all the other trial events have been a success.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Luckily, it is coming back soon. We've been at this over a year and most things are opening in 4 weeks. That's soon.

yes, so not much longer to shout about it a lot.

[fraybentos1]

Intrigued to see what happens to this thread when things start coming back to normal. When it ends up on page 2 then we really know we are back to normal.