When will this shit end?

[DeanoL]

20 hours ago, JoeyT said:

Let's not forget the rule of 6 is outside where there isn't much more of an increase to where we're at now to be honest.

Also, mixing in groups of this size has been happening a lot already so I personally don't think it will have much of an affect.

Doesn't it follow though that the people breaking the rules are generally going one step beyond the guidance? So all those people that are already meeting outdoors feel that the government are being too slow in how they are relaxing restrictions. So once meeting outdoors becomes acceptable, those people who think things are too slow will then start meeting indoors. 

15 hours ago, JoeyT said:

Aren’t we back below average deaths at the given week for a normal year now?

In which case surely that’s where we want to be and providing we stay around that figure we can’t really argue?

Well we need to be far enough below that when we open up we don't end up loads above again. 

 

[zahidf]

 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, MEGABOWL said:

It’s a great point about the ‘precautionary principle.’ That simply isn’t how we live. There’s also a scary shift in how people view the relationship between Government and the people. Too many getting used to the idea that their rights and freedoms are the Governments to dole out as the Government sees fit, when it should be about the Government proving why they need restrictions. Unfortunately too many on the left, or actual Liberals, are sleeping on this.

The thing is, we normally do have precautions in place to protect against stuff like this. All the time. We always live this way. The precaution we take in normal times against a virulent virus is simple: it's the NHS. We design the NHS to have space capacity, and to be able to flex capacity to deal with outbreaks or emergencies like this. That is our precaution. 

I've not seen a single person argue against that in normal times. "Oh, we need to reduce funding to the NHS because they have empty beds and that's a waste". We all want them to have empty beds incase there's a point at which one of us needs them. That's the precautionary principle.

But the NHS is still dealing with COVID and it's aftermath. COVID patients can spend months in hospital, so even once admissions fall, there's going to be a lag while the number of actual patients stays significant. And then there's the big backlog in cancer treatment, etc. that the NHS will need to deal with in the coming year.

So the NHS is going to struggle to be the emergency button to use against another virus or a vaccine evading strain. Now, there's certainly an argument that pandemics are a once-in-a-century phenomenon, and that we'll actually be okay without any safety valve for 12 months while we sort out this mess. There's merit to that, I think.

But it's untrue to say we don't normally apply this precautionary principle. Or that we don't live that way. We absolutely do.

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

my 85 year old mum has decided not to have it shes also signed a dnr. I THINK THE TWO THINGS COME FROM THE SAME PLACE

oh wow. Must be frustrating.

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

Well it's signed into law til September that this is exactly the case (and clearly to be extended to next March because they'll need those powers over winter, when I'm sure some variants of concern will be put to the media around vote time to extend it further). They may lift parts of lockdown but they will never give back the emergency powers 

People's fear will keep going long beyond the vaccination program

Agreed. The trust being shown in a Government that is demonstrably untrustworthy is mind blowing. I can understand the rushing through of Emergency Laws this time last year. But not now.

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

isn't that article/tweet complaining about vaccine passports for pubs etc?

I can't see the point myself. Everyone will be vaccinated by the summer anyway...well, maybe not everyone but certainly enough. If individual pubs want to do it, fair enough...but don't have to make it a national requirement everywhere imo. 

I’m talking in general terms. Which I think the article is too. The Tories extending the Emergency laws by 6 months at this stage is potentially a very significant step towards a shift in the population-Government relationship given the current situation. 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, jannybruck said:

Yes, we're at the point now here in London where there's clear 'pressure points' because people want to be out and about but we've not quite reached the official date yet. Outdoor markets are packed, parks rammed, supermarkets too.

These places function at normal capacity when society is spread out with thousands of different things to do and options to spend your time, but totally bottleneck when only a few are available.

It's Thursday at Avalon innit?

[eFestivals]

49 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

oh wow. Must be frustrating.

It's her life she's old and her health is deteriorating.

[MEGABOWL]

57 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The thing is, we normally do have precautions in place to protect against stuff like this. All the time. We always live this way. The precaution we take in normal times against a virulent virus is simple: it's the NHS. We design the NHS to have space capacity, and to be able to flex capacity to deal with outbreaks or emergencies like this. That is our precaution. 

I've not seen a single person argue against that in normal times. "Oh, we need to reduce funding to the NHS because they have empty beds and that's a waste". We all want them to have empty beds incase there's a point at which one of us needs them. That's the precautionary principle.

But the NHS is still dealing with COVID and it's aftermath. COVID patients can spend months in hospital, so even once admissions fall, there's going to be a lag while the number of actual patients stays significant. And then there's the big backlog in cancer treatment, etc. that the NHS will need to deal with in the coming year.

So the NHS is going to struggle to be the emergency button to use against another virus or a vaccine evading strain. Now, there's certainly an argument that pandemics are a once-in-a-century phenomenon, and that we'll actually be okay without any safety valve for 12 months while we sort out this mess. There's merit to that, I think.

But it's untrue to say we don't normally apply this precautionary principle. Or that we don't live that way. We absolutely do.

NHS Capacity is an issue and always likely will be. However I’m not sure you can equate ‘having Healthcare’ with very clear restrictions on Civil Liberties based on the idea that a disease or variant of a disease that doesn’t currently exist might exist at some point in the future.
 

But even if you want to say that we always apply that Principle the debate then is around how zealously do we apply it. The same questions arise as we are undoubtedly applying it much more enthusiastically and with greater impact on people’s lives. When do we pull back from this? If we aren’t, what is the cost and what is the change in how we live?

[zahidf]

 

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Weren’t the first doses stopped ? How many more first doses need to be given to complete the plan for the first groups ... I’m suprised so many first doses are still being done ... 

[stuartbert two hats]

9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Weren’t the first doses stopped ? How many more first doses need to be given to complete the plan for the first groups ... I’m suprised so many first doses are still being done ... 

Not for a few days.

[incident]

13 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Weren’t the first doses stopped ? How many more first doses need to be given to complete the plan for the first groups ... I’m suprised so many first doses are still being done ... 

No, first doses haven't been stopped and won't entirely be.

It's just that with a need to ensure that the previously booked second doses can be fully serviced, there's a slight caution on offering 1st dose appointments until vaccine supply is known. Around here you can still get 1st dose appointments easily (if you're in Groups 1-9), but can only book up to around 5 days ahead.

[Crazyfool01]

16 minutes ago, incident said:

No, first doses haven't been stopped and won't entirely be.

It's just that with a need to ensure that the previously booked second doses can be fully serviced, there's a slight caution on offering 1st dose appointments until vaccine supply is known. Around here you can still get 1st dose appointments easily (if you're in Groups 1-9), but can only book up to around 5 days ahead.

It just looks like an awfull lot of 1st are still being done ... I’m just forgetting that supply should be better in 12 weeks time ... and a little jumpy I haven’t got a second dose date and can’t book one either .. but I’m sure it will be fine 🙂 

[tigger123]

10 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

It just looks like an awfull lot of 1st are still being done ... I’m just forgetting that supply should be better in 12 weeks time ... and a little jumpy I haven’t got a second dose date and can’t book one either .. but I’m sure it will be fine 🙂 

How come you can’t book one? Can you not just go on the NHS site? Might be worth a go for peace of mind (apologies if you’ve already tried)

Edited March 27, 2021 by tigger123

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, tigger123 said:

How come you can’t book one? Can you not just go on the NHS site? Might be worth a go 

Nah apparently the gp hubs aren’t bookable at least the one I went to ... I’ve tried the link and no joy ... hopefully I’ll get a link messaged to me at some point as that’s how I got my first one ... It will be sometime in the next 7 weeks 🙂 ... 

[funkychick2007]

Seems to be different all over!! I had my second booked for 1st April before we were allowed to leave the building!! But know plenty of others who didn't get a second date!! 

[Homer]

No sign of my first jab yet (44, London). Would quite like to get through all of this without getting it having got this far.

[gazzared]

23 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

How come you can’t book one? Can you not just go on the NHS site? Might be worth a go for peace of mind (apologies if you’ve already tried)

I phoned my doctor's yesterday to see if their was any availability and got jabbed today 👍 Iam 46 with no health issues. Seems most of my friends got jabbed aswell.

[SamJ]

34 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Nah apparently the gp hubs aren’t bookable at least the one I went to ... I’ve tried the link and no joy ... hopefully I’ll get a link messaged to me at some point as that’s how I got my first one ... It will be sometime in the next 7 weeks 🙂 ... 

if it’s any comfort, relatives who had the jab about 9 weeks ago got told to expect a call from GP in week 10/11

[Crazyfool01]

8 minutes ago, SamJ said:

if it’s any comfort, relatives who had the jab about 9 weeks ago got told to expect a call from GP in week 10/11

Cheers .. I know it’ll come ... just that date would be nice ... I’ll just ring them if I’ve had nothing by week 11 🙂 

[JoeyT]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

Nah apparently the gp hubs aren’t bookable at least the one I went to ... I’ve tried the link and no joy ... hopefully I’ll get a link messaged to me at some point as that’s how I got my first one ... It will be sometime in the next 7 weeks 🙂 ... 

I think you had Pfizer didn't you? I don't know if that's different to AZ, but I have booked my second one at a different location to my first. I had my first while volunteering in east London and booked my second for June much closer to home in west London. They told me to book at the time, though, so maybe it's different if you do it via a GP rather than a mass vaccination centre.

This is the link I used - just needed my NHS number and the system knew I'd had one dose of AZ already:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination

Is that the one you tried? If so feel free to ignore me! 

I sent it to my parents to book their second but they said they'd rather just wait to be contacted. Given the choice I would always prefer to be booked in if possible!

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, SamJ said:

if it’s any comfort, relatives who had the jab about 9 weeks ago got told to expect a call from GP in week 10/11

Yeah this is what my parents were told too (AZ, Essex). My father-in-law (Pfizer, Warwickshire) got his second appointment booked there and then while having his first. Seems to vary a lot! 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think you had Pfizer didn't you? I don't know if that's different to AZ, but I have booked my second one at a different location to my first. I had my first while volunteering in east London and booked my second for June much closer to home in west London. They told me to book at the time, though, so maybe it's different if you do it via a GP rather than a mass vaccination centre.

This is the link I used - just needed my NHS number and the system knew I'd had one dose of AZ already:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination

Is that the one you tried? If so feel free to ignore me! 

I sent it to my parents to book their second but they said they'd rather just wait to be contacted. Given the choice I would always prefer to be booked in if possible!

yep thats the one I tried but thanks 🙂