When will this shit end?

[mattiloy]

11 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Blair of course was famous for losing elections. Oh wait...

and yeah you’re gonna reply something something red tory blah blah but my point was purely about winning elections, not ideology. 

Times have changed, by the time Blair left his shallow ideology was done - as demonstrated by Brown and Miliband (and in fact Blair himself was behind in the polls for about a year before he departed).

[Homer]

To get things back on topic, the wife cooked a roast yesterday (lamb). For the record: sour cream present... but no tinned tomatoes.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

It's a hard case to make that there is any disadvantage from having a rapid initial roll-out.

There remains a major concern however that they won't be able to do 2nd Doses in a timely manner. There is not an infinite window to do these in order to fully vaccinate people and the planning needs to be good.

they should get away with it, because the UK will start getting deliveries of other vaccines around the time they need to start using most of the AZ and Pfizer for 2nd vaccines (plus AZ and pfizer deliveries increase).

[duke88]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think potentially they could’ve gone too hard just to meet this target and now I wouldn’t be surprised to see vaccine numbers slow in the coming days. Remember it’s all optics for these guys.

How can they have gone "too hard"? The vaccine comes in, then goes out to be administered. Everything is dictated by supply, and the government has no real say in that. Are you saying we should have held some back?

[zahidf]

Good news for moderna

 

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, duke88 said:

How can they have gone "too hard"? The vaccine comes in, then goes out to be administered. Everything is dictated by supply, and the government has no real say in that. Are you saying we should have held some back?

Whatever the gov do, we should have done the opposite according to Ozanne. There's about a billion things to criticise the current gov on over the last year and for some reason he still needs to have a weird dig at this.

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

TBF Wales are storming it now

I was meaning more the fact that Drakeford admitted Wales slowed down the initial delivery to avoid having a situation where the vaccinators are standing around with nothing to do, something @Ozanne is now criticising England for NOT doing. 

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Times have changed, by the time Blair left his shallow ideology was done - as demonstrated by Brown and Miliband (and in fact Blair himself was behind in the polls for about a year before he departed).

I don't necessarily agree with the points you make but aside from that, you seem to suggest Starmer= Blair cause he seems to have some sort of focus on electability. We are 3 and a bit years away from the next general election, plenty of time for policy to be discussed and it really hasn't been so far.

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, st dan said:

Heard 17m on the radio this morning. 

 

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639

roughly 17M

So if the supplies come in as anticipated, around 70% of this group should be done by the end of March. The remaining 5m can be done in April assuming that supplies in April are strictly higher than they were in January (given that all January patients will get their second dose in April)

[zahidf]

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

If all over 50’s are done by the end of March then rules should be SIGNIFICANTLY relaxed. I don’t want them completely scrapped like the CRG but I’m thinking along the lines of:

 

- Indoor household mixing allowed in groups of 6

- All businesses open provided that 1m+ social distancing can be followed

- Outdoor mixing permitted in larger groups

- Keep mask mandates, hand washing etc 

[st dan]

If they can vaccinate all over 50s by March, and then in turn all all 1-9 categories fully two dose vaccinated by end of April that would be a fantastic achievement.
If so, then it could well have a significant impact the roadmap, and May could be a lot less restricted than some are expecting. 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

If all over 50’s are done by the end of March then rules should be SIGNIFICANTLY relaxed. I don’t want them completely scrapped like the CRG but I’m thinking along the lines of:

 

- Indoor household mixing allowed in groups of 6

- All businesses open provided that 1m+ social distancing can be followed

- Outdoor mixing permitted in larger groups

- Keep mask mandates, hand washing etc 

I'm thinking that's part of the reason why they aren't using it as a target: they'll don't want to commit to easing restrictions if they can do that target.

[Guest]

The rules won’t be significantly relaxed by the end of March even if they get all those over 50 vaccinated. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The rules won’t be significantly relaxed by the end of March even if they get all those over 50 vaccinated. 

Hi Mark, you’re not wrong here (which is a first). They should be, though. And holding us in lockdown to stop 40 year olds getting a sniffle is neither necessary nor proportionate and thus the lockdown should then be legally challenged by human rights lawyers. 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Hi Mark, you’re not wrong here (which is a first). They should be, though. And holding us in lockdown to stop 40 year olds getting a sniffle is neither necessary nor proportionate and thus the lockdown should then be legally challenged by human rights lawyers. 

Speaking of neither necessary not proportionate, that's a hostile response to a simple and non-contentious post.

[Toilet Duck]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

 

Ok, which one of you guys write for the Guardian?

 

What a bizarre article trying to argue the EU's strategy is better because it costs less...

Read that yesterday and had a bit of a chuckle! It’s clutching at straws a bit. The criticism of the UK approach in terms of the potential impact on efficacy is wide of the mark (technically you could query the gap for Pfizer, but all the data so far suggests it should be fine). However, he is correct in that procurement had to be centralised in the EU otherwise lots of countries would have been left behind (and I say that fully expecting that Ireland as a rich country with a small population and close ties to major Pharma probably could have gone full Israel on it were we not part of a central procurement strategy...as it is, like Germany and Austria and others, we have extra doses of Moderna from the allocation of other EU countries that couldn’t afford it). He’s also right about the liability aspects, so there’s pros and cons to both approaches, but it couldn’t have been any different for the EU in terms of procurement. I’ve no issue with how they went about it, nor how the EMA approve the various candidates, what they didn’t do well was consider what help the companies needed to scale up and produce at pace. The UK had some serendipity on this front as AZ don’t make vaccines as a core part of their business, so they would have needed to have this discussion anyway (though the EU only appear to be having it with them now), but it’s probably fair to assume that a major vaccine manufacturer like Sanofi could deliver what they promise. 

[Guest]

Just now, xxialac said:

Speaking of neither necessary not proportionate, that's a hostile response to a simple and non-contentious post.

I have him on ignore so don’t see the vast majority of his stuff. I am wrong quite a lot to be fair but why Mark?

[zahidf]

Buy whitty lunch!

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Read that yesterday and had a bit of a chuckle! It’s clutching at straws a bit. The criticism of the UK approach in terms of the potential impact on efficacy is wide of the mark (technically you could query the gap for Pfizer, but all the data so far suggests it should be fine). However, he is correct in that procurement had to be centralised in the EU otherwise lots of countries would have been left behind (and I say that fully expecting that Ireland as a rich country with a small population and close ties to major Pharma probably could have gone full Israel on it were we not part of a central procurement strategy...as it is, like Germany and Austria and others, we have extra doses of Moderna from the allocation of other EU countries that couldn’t afford it). He’s also right about the liability aspects, so there’s pros and cons to both approaches, but it couldn’t have been any different for the EU in terms of procurement. I’ve no issue with how they went about it, nor how the EMA approve the various candidates, what they didn’t do well was consider what help the companies needed to scale up and produce at pace. The UK had some serendipity on this front as AZ don’t make vaccines as a core part of their business, so they would have needed to have this discussion anyway (though the EU only appear to be having it with them now), but it’s probably fair to assume that a major vaccine manufacturer like Sanofi could deliver what they promise. 

Ah interesting! He may have had some decent points but ruins it by saying the UK are failing because they haven't FULLY vaccinated people with two doses, which seem very petty

[st dan]

Just now, zahidf said:

Buy whitty lunch!

Is there a Just Giving page to buy him his very own PowerPoint ‘clicker’ yet? I’ll happily donate to that. 

[ace56blaa]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Hi Mark, you’re not wrong here (which is a first). They should be, though. And holding us in lockdown to stop 40 year olds getting a sniffle is neither necessary nor proportionate and thus the lockdown should then be legally challenged by human rights lawyers. 

Someone got up on the arsehole side of the bed today. 

1. Yet again constantly singling out Ozanne for multiple post for no reason other than get a rise or reaction out of him. It's weird, it's like you're obsessed. 
2. By the end of March, over 50s will have their first shot, but everyone still needs to get the full protection before we can relax that many things.
3. Stop discounting the under fifty year olds, who do get severe symptoms or long covid, 

We should definitely relax some restrictions to get kids back to school, get some more businesses open, but every single time we have come out of lockdown too soon too hastily or relaxed too much, I'd rather casionos and arcades take a little longer to open than risk being back in lockdown because there's outbreaks in over 50s before they get the second vaccine shot. 

[zahidf]

We should know by the end of March as to what protection one dose gives and how long for, as well as if it stops serious Covid. If it does, i would say we should open up asap and as widely as possible. 

[squirrelarmy]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I have him on ignore so don’t see the vast majority of his stuff. I am wrong quite a lot to be fair but why Mark?

[Toilet Duck]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ah interesting! He may have had some decent points but ruins it by saying the UK are failing because they haven't FULLY vaccinated people with two doses, which seem very petty

Yep, that part was nonsense! Point scoring is useless, they are two different situations, but the UK is playing a blinder.