Greta Thunberg

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

 

However far you studied it, you must have concluded it was not carbon positive though.

They use bio and have some solar etc but theres no way we’d have the same or less effect if all 205000 stayed home that week! 

I totally agree. It is said that the number of attendees is the same as the population of a large town. I have my doubts that a town generates as much shit as Glastonbury does over the week. But I guess it is just a sacrifice we are willing to make. 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

 

However far you studied it, you must have concluded it was not carbon positive though.

They use bio and have some solar etc but theres no way we’d have the same or less effect if all 205000 stayed home that week! 

Not to mention all the HGV traffic during the build+dismantling.

[John the Moth]

Trying to avoid posts about Greta on social media at the moment... I’m finding it quite soul crushing just seeing the sheer number of people totally unwilling to engage with her message, whether pro or against, and instead opting for the nastiest, unfounded personal attacks.

?

[kalifire]

13 minutes ago, John the Moth said:

Trying to avoid posts about Greta on social media at the moment... I’m finding it quite soul crushing just seeing the sheer number of people totally unwilling to engage with her message, whether pro or against, and instead opting for the nastiest, unfounded personal attacks.

?

Me too. She’s the latest victim of the race to the bottom discourse we have at the moment. This toxic, binary, infantile exchanges that have taken the place of engagement and debate. It’s just incredibly depressing. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Both sides-ism is it?

[John the Moth]

54 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Both sides-ism is it?

Far from it, which may contribute to why deniers resort to ad-hominems, which draws retaliation, and before you know it all...

[danbailey80]

Would be great but only if in country. 

But I can see the Daily Mail clickbait headline now...

"Teenage environmentalist Thunberg's rants fall on deaf ears as hypocrites leave site trashed with plastic and left tents". by A. c**t

 

 

[Avalon_Fields]

7 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Not to mention all the HGV traffic during the build+dismantling.

....and numerous artists flying in from around the world. I’d hazard a guess everything the festival tries to do is outweighed by this alone. 

[Superscally]

I'm glad Greta is enabling the issue to get so much publicity, but I wonder how many of the kids who are going on these protests are actually making a difference or just making noise and wanting the world to change without doing so themselves. How many are asking to walk or ride a bike to school? How many are demanding new trainers because their friends have some? How many are spending hours on their phones and PlayStations? Parents who are now fully aware of this situation should be going: "well you appear to want to care, let's see how much you really do."

Kids are seeming to have a free hit at the moment, but until parents change and make their kids' habits change it's likely an empty gesture. Politicians would be more likely to change if the words are backed up with action. If parents don't enforce the change, the kids will be the same as parents. While we're at it, the biggest difference we can make has been categorically shown to be by having one, maximum two kids. That's the thorny issue that people seem unwilling to talk about...

 

[clarkete]

40 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I'm glad Greta is enabling the issue to get so much publicity, but I wonder how many of the kids who are going on these protests are actually making a difference or just making noise and wanting the world to change without doing so themselves. How many are asking to walk or ride a bike to school? How many are demanding new trainers because their friends have some? How many are spending hours on their phones and PlayStations? Parents who are now fully aware of this situation should be going: "well you appear to want to care, let's see how much you really do."

I think you do some of those kids a gross dis-service.  Plenty of them have a much more positive perspective than you do.

[Sasperella]

Had a bit of an alarming insight into the world outside the "bubble" today when someone on Facebook posted a link to a meme of Greta posted on Breitbart, to highlight how awful some of the backlash is. I had no idea! I realise that Breitbart are a bunch of ****s at the best of times, but Jesus Christ..... 

The irony of people who are presumably Trump supporters getting angry that she is funded/planted by the "elite" is also pretty fucking grim. 

[Matt42]

Greta is right though, adults (those with the real power to change things) shouldn’t be coming to children for hope or the answers, they should be doing it themselves!

[Matt42]

Just now, Sasperella said:

Had a bit of an alarming insight into the world outside the "bubble" today when someone on Facebook posted a link to a meme of Greta posted on Breitbart, to highlight how awful some of the backlash is. I had no idea! I realise that Breitbart are a bunch of ****s at the best of times, but Jesus Christ..... 

The irony of people who are presumably Trump supporters getting angry that she is funded/planted by the "elite" is also pretty fucking grim. 

I have family over in America and the amount of climate change denial over there is crazy. I had a chat with a man who believed that climate change is a plot by the Clinton foundation. 

[Winslow Leach]

Lol, I knew this place had gone to the dogs but wasn’t expecting to log on for a hit of high grade eugenics.

[Avalon_Fields]

39 minutes ago, Superscally said:

While we're at it, the biggest difference we can make has been categorically shown to be by having one, maximum two kids. That's the thorny issue that people seem unwilling to talk about...

 

Absolutely agree with you there. Limiting the world's population growth would have huge benefits to our ecosystems.

Out of interest; Is anyone on here living a carbon neutral life? (Or, dare I say it, are we all hypocrites?)

[maelzoid]

The personal attacks on her are sickening. Trump's tweet was a particular low point. I know he is an appalling human being, but that level of bullying from the official twitter account of POTUS is a disgrace.

Another thing that is winding me up, is all the accusations of hypocrisy, along the lines of "You claim to be concerned for the environment, but then you do (insert anything that is remotely non-environmental here)…"

I'm of the realization that the response to this should be "So what?" A campaigner can be the world's biggest hypocrite, but it doesn't mean the argument is any less valid. If the message is "We need to reduce carbon output", it doesn't matter if it's coming from someone who drives an SUV - the message is still spot on.

[maelzoid]

As for limiting birth-rates…

Birth-rates continue to drop all over the world and this has nothing to do with eugenics. As populations in their billions are raised out of poverty, which has happened over the last 30-odd years, as girls are allowed access to education, and then employment, and people have access to medicine and sanitation improves, birth rates inevitably drop.

This website has some great insights (and nice graphics)

https://www.gapminder.org/

[guypjfreak]

Right I'm going to start making we love greta t shirts.. If its like the corbyn crowd I'll sell out in no time lol.. Plus any left overs I'll sell as greta van fleet t shirts even if they don't play.. 

[kalifire]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

Greta is right though, adults (those with the real power to change things) shouldn’t be coming to children for hope or the answers, they should be doing it themselves!

I’m not sure that’s correct. With every generation the world gradually, on the whole, gets better. Look at where we were just 100 years ago. I think adults looking to younger people for inspiration is probably about right. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by kalifire

[Superscally]

1 hour ago, clarkete said:

I think you do some of those kids a gross dis-service.  Plenty of them have a much more positive perspective than you do.

Not true at all. Some of those kids, for sure, but I'm not saying they're all doing nowt so I'm not having a pop at them. I have a very positive outlook, but only if people pull their weight. It's not enough to wave a placard and think you've done your job.

1 hour ago, Avalon_Fields said:

 

Out of interest; Is anyone on here living a carbon neutral life? (Or, dare I say it, are we all hypocrites?)

Hypocrite is a tough word, I guess If the definition of it is being completely carbon neutral, it means we all are. I sold my old car to get one that does a shed load mpg, I recycle, terracycle, run to places, buy second hand stuff where I can, carbon offset any airtravel with Atmosfair, have elected to have one kid and am almost vegetarian, but I still eat some shite food, wrapped in plastic, am on my phone right now, and travel a fair bit, so I'm not able to claim holier than thou. Than some, perhaps, than many, maybe, but still could do better. My next project is to calculate the complete carbon footprint of my 18-month run for the WWF and Peace Direct and as soon as I'm back in the black, I'll be offsetting that. A start, I guess.

[maelzoid]

8 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Hypocrite is a tough word, I guess If the definition of it is being completely carbon neutral, it means we all are. I sold my old car to get one that does a shed load mpg, I recycle, terracycle, run to places, buy second hand stuff where I can, carbon offset any airtravel with Atmosfair, have elected to have one kid and am almost vegetarian, but I still eat some shite food, wrapped in plastic, am on my phone right now, and travel a fair bit, so I'm not able to claim holier than thou. Than some, perhaps, than many, maybe, but still could do better. My next project is to calculate the complete carbon footprint of my 18-month run for the WWF and Peace Direct and as soon as I'm back in the black, I'll be offsetting that. A start, I guess.

Good work.

I would like to carbon offset my flying which is easily my greatest sin in terms of carbon. I'll look into atmosfair.

 

[stuie]

12 minutes ago, Superscally said:

carbon offset any airtravel with Atmosfair

Some people might say, so, you can carry on flying guilt-free but only if you can afford to pay to do so?  It seems a bit hypocritical to me.  It's not enough to pay and think you've done your job ;-)

 

 

 

[Scott129]

I think some people put far too great an emphasis on individuals to change their behaviour. Don't get me wrong its fantastic that people do and we should of course encourage it and do so ourselves. But one individual or even thousands of individuals isn't going to achieve what is necessary, unless there is a big big structural change too. George Monbiot described it far better than I could: 

 

[Superscally]

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

Some people might say, so, you can carry on flying guilt-free but only if you can afford to pay to do so?  It seems a bit hypocritical to me.  It's not enough to pay and think you've done your job ?

 

 

 

Nope. I unfortunately have to travel with my job and occasionally I go on holiday. Was going to go to Oz on honeymoon, but elected against for that reason. To be honest, you do raise an interesting question though. If you're carbon neutral bit have spent a lot of money to do so, surely that's a good thing, no? It does therefore mean that some things aren't accessible to those with lots of money, but that's the way it's eternally been. For the record, the cost of offsetting a flight is usually less than 5% of the total cost, so if you can't afford to offset, you should maybe be reviewing your travel choices regardless...

 

24 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

Good work.

I would like to carbon offset my flying which is easily my greatest sin in terms of carbon. I'll look into atmosfair.

 

Cheers. Atmosfair seems to have a cracking reputation and allows a good degree of selection of projects. As I'm really interested in tiger conservation as an umbrella species, I invest in a company that makes and donates thermally effeicient stoves in NE India and Bangladesh that lead to the need for less wood, less deforestation and less habitat destruction, for the tiger, but also for all the other species in that habitat. Welcome to the umbrella, less glamorous species ?

[Superscally]

13 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

I think some people put far too great an emphasis on individuals to change their behaviour. Don't get me wrong its fantastic that people do and we should of course encourage it and do so ourselves. But one individual or even thousands of individuals isn't going to achieve what is necessary, unless there is a big big structural change too. George Monbiot described it far better than I could: 

 

I've heard that argument, but I prefer this:

 

Just like one person taking a flight doesn't make a dent in the carbon situation, it creates demand. Millions of individuals thinking and acting in a way is picked up on by business and governments and creates change. People just need to believe and act even though it seems like the biggest waste of time to many.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Superscally