Bob Vylan Chants

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Like, you're not wrong, that is a good point. But hand on heart, do you truly believe if the remaining hostages were handed over, that Israel would cease any aggression in Gaza? 

 

Like maybe you do, and I can't really argue with that. But I think the reason we're maybe talking at cross purposes here is that a lot of us think it'd make no difference whatsoever to Israel's position. And it's a counter-factual, we can't possibly know either way. 

I'm sure there are some in the Israeli government and maybe Netanyahu who would like to carry on, but it would be a lot more difficult politically and would strain even further any US support. 

But, Hamas are holding onto the hostages because it is the only leverage they have left.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I'm sure there are some in the Israeli government and maybe Netanyahu who would like to carry on, but it would be a lot more difficult politically and would strain even further any US support. 

But, Hamas are holding onto the hostages because it is the only leverage they have left.

Well yeah, Hamas think if they return the hostages any chance of Israel stopping is gone. I mean weirdly for the first time I think they might actually pull out of Gaza if the hostages were returned,  but that's because they need those forces in Iran...

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Well yeah, Hamas think if they return the hostages any chance of Israel stopping is gone. I mean weirdly for the first time I think they might actually pull out of Gaza if the hostages were returned,  but that's because they need those forces in Iran...

and I think there is exhaustion all round, right? Netanyahu will be thinking about re-election soon, he really needs those hostages home, and what looks like a win. Trump wants a resolution too, he wants to be the deal maker who ends wars. He can't get what he wants with Ukraine, but maybe he could in the middle east.

[Blisterpack]

11 minutes ago, tarw said:

ALL lives matter!

 

to try and distract from the fact that Black Lives Matter. 
 

But What about Nova to distract from the atrocities being committed 

Wtf you on about?

[DeanoL]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and I think there is exhaustion all round, right? Netanyahu will be thinking about re-election soon, he really needs those hostages home, and what looks like a win. Trump wants a resolution too, he wants to be the deal maker who ends wars. He can't get what he wants with Ukraine, but maybe he could in the middle east.

Or y'know, they both want the conflicts to continue so there's an excuse not to have any elections...

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Or y'know, they both want the conflicts to continue so there's an excuse not to have any elections...

maybe with Netanyahu. Not sure that works for Trump. But, the road will run out for Netanyahu, eventually domestic pressure will get too much.

[zahidf]

Careful, criticising uk lawyers for Israel is probably anti semitic as well. 

[Superscally]

1 hour ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Exactly. 

Really really strange, with a nasty undercurrent - and as far as I can see, pretty easily debunked, to be arguing that no progress has been made in the peace talks because of Palestine. Perhaps Hamas have been hiding time machines in their tunnels seeing as though they are directly responsible for collapsing the Peel Plan in the late 1930s.

The Peel Plan was ridiculous. I'll come and take your house, but you can have the shed and the downstairs bog. Like that?

[Nobby's Old Boots]

23 minutes ago, Superscally said:

The Peel Plan was ridiculous. I'll come and take your house, but you can have the shed and the downstairs bog. Like that?

I certainly wasn't defending the details of the plan - if anything that just further demonstrates who is always putting the chokehold on any plans for genuine peace.

[Superscally]

15 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

I certainly wasn't defending the details of the plan - if anything that just further demonstrates who is always putting the chokehold on any plans for genuine peace.

Nope. That's patently not true. If you look at the timeline of the two/three/state solutions it has always been Israel since the rejection of the Peel plan. There have been times where it has been close due to a more progressive Israeli approach, but whether it be the assassination of a Palestinian leader, or the election of a new Israeli regime, Israel has been the ultimate roadblock. For anyone to say otherwise, apart from pointing out that Israel has been attacked by Palestinians (which is true, but a false equivalence apart from October 7 and the Munich Olympics - if you really want to reach HARD on the latter) is disingenuous. Yes, nothing has happened since Hamas, but they wouldn't have been in power if the Palestinian state has been allowed to exist in an truly free way. Hamas is a problem. The Israeli government is a problem.

Edited July 2, 2025 by Superscally

[Nobby's Old Boots]

4 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Israel has been the ultimate roadblock.

Yes. I know. That's what I'm saying....

[philipsteak]

4 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You set up a new defensive organisation actually focused on defence? 

 

One could argue that you just need to reform the IDF, but at some point when an organisation has committed so many atrocities you have to wipe it clean and start again. 

 

Like after WW2 the existing German army was disbanded and a new one set up.

 

Can't remember if I mentioned here or elsewhere but I spent some time in Israel 20 odd years ago on a kibbutz. Obviously got friendly with some of the younger kibutzniks. I remember one in particular, mid twenties I think. He'd done his national service but was due to be called back up for reserve duty. It was the time of the second intifada and things were also kicking off in Hebron with the settlers there. His attitude was he was absolutely fine doing his duty and defending his country but he was f**ked if he was being sent into the West Bank or Gaza or into Hebron to defend a bunch of extremist settlers. He'd leave and risk arrest before that. He wasn't the only one I knew with those views. 

I do wonder what those guys think now. They'd be too old for reserve duty now anyway but I wonder if their views have shifted

[Superscally]

4 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Yes. I know. That's what I'm saying....

Ah, ok! 😄

1 minute ago, philipsteak said:

 

Can't remember if I mentioned here or elsewhere but I spent some time in Israel 20 odd years ago on a kibbutz. Obviously got friendly with some of the younger kibutzniks. I remember one in particular, mid twenties I think. He'd done his national service but was due to be called back up for reserve duty. It was the time of the second intifada and things were also kicking off in Hebron with the settlers there. His attitude was he was absolutely fine doing his duty and defending his country but he was f**ked if he was being sent into the West Bank or Gaza or into Hebron to defend a bunch of extremist settlers. He'd leave and risk arrest before that. He wasn't the only one I knew with those views. 

I do wonder what those guys think now. They'd be too old for reserve duty now anyway but I wonder if their views have shifted

I reckon they'll mostly think the same. New guys? Yeah, I dunno...

[SheffJeff]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Or y'know, they both want the conflicts to continue so there's an excuse not to have any elections...

 

I do wonder given the low life expectancy and median age in Gaza how many Palestinians living there actually voted for Hamas in the 2006 elections. 

[SheffJeff]

Channel 4 are showing the documentary 'Gaza: Doctors Under Attack' tonight which the BBC wouldn't show. Wonder if it'll feature the doctor whose husband and 9 children were killed when the IDF bombed their house?

[Skip997]

19 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Channel 4 are showing the documentary 'Gaza: Doctors Under Attack' tonight which the BBC wouldn't show. Wonder if it'll feature the doctor whose husband and 9 children were killed when the IDF bombed their house?

I was party to information from a music “insider”, a film maker. Apparently a video commissioned by Kneecap made by Palestinians and due to be shown at the start of their set was banned by GFL 

[SheffJeff]

8 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

I was party to information from a music “insider”, a film maker. Apparently a video commissioned by Kneecap made by Palestinians and due to be shown at the start of their set was banned by GFL 

 

I wonder whether Robbie Gibb had any influence there?

[philipsteak]

1 hour ago, Superscally said:

 

I reckon they'll mostly think the same. New guys? Yeah, I dunno...

 

I really do hope so. 

My experience back then of friends in their 20s was that doing your 3 years in the IDF turned socially conservative, naive young kibutzniks into massive stoners

[SheffJeff]

 

 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

Gaza: Doctors Under Attack on Channel 4 now.  What the BBC were too cowardly to air.

 

Amongst the most shocking testimony is four premature babies who died at the Al Shifa hospital because of the IDF.

 

@MEGATRONICMEATWAGON has the stats.

[Superscally]

4 hours ago, SheffJeff said:

Channel 4 are showing the documentary 'Gaza: Doctors Under Attack' tonight which the BBC wouldn't show. Wonder if it'll feature the doctor whose husband and 9 children were killed when the IDF bombed their house?

It's just shown the gang rape of a Palestinian man and an Israeli politician saying that was a legitimate act. Wonder what Keir thinks of that re: Human rights?

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, SheffJeff said:

 

 

I feel sorry for that festival put in that position by the scumbag Israeli lobby 

[xxialac]

 

Israeli military used 500lb bomb in strike on Gaza cafe, fragments reveal. Exclusive: Experts say use of heavy munition in Monday’s strike that killed dozens may constitute a war crime

Breaking in the Guardian - we knew 30 dead civilians from a massive bomb on a cafe by the sea including several children and dozens injured and now it looks like a war crime.

Some on here will justify it. These people are sick.

 

[stokelad84]

5 hours ago, xxialac said:

 

Israeli military used 500lb bomb in strike on Gaza cafe, fragments reveal. Exclusive: Experts say use of heavy munition in Monday’s strike that killed dozens may constitute a war crime

Breaking in the Guardian - we knew 30 dead civilians from a massive bomb on a cafe by the sea including several children and dozens injured and now it looks like a war crime.

Some on here will justify it. These people are sick.

 

 

More death and Hamas still refuse to release hostages. Heroes!

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

1 hour ago, stokelad84 said:

 

More death and Hamas still refuse to release hostages. Heroes!

 

*Another war crime is committed and a 4 year old child is killed by the IDF*

 

"B-b-b-but Hamas!"