When will this shit end?

[Zoo Music Girl]

The more I think about this track and trace thing the more issues I think of. Say you work in a supermarket. As much as you try to social distance from your colleagues, it's probably inevitable you will get without 2m of a few of them within a week (I certainly see this among staff at my local Tesco). Will you remember all of them? Or is it easier just to name everyone who was on shift with you, which would cause a lot of hassle for the managers booking rotas? I think whether or not people can get sick pay for self isolation is going to be crucial here too.

[squirrelarmy]

46 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

Devastating report in the FT today. Would urge you to read this. 

There is one small positive to take from that. They said our death rate is unlikely to be overtaken until much of Europe is hit by a second wave. 
 

Our handling of this wave has been so shambolic then there’s a chance that anyone who was likely to catch it and be affected by the virus has already come into contact with it. A second wave will probably have minimal effect on our population.

It also fits in with the Governments original herd immunity plan. A horrendous amount of people have died prematurely and that’s on the governments hands. I’m just hoping it can’t get any worse. 

[zahidf]

FWIW I think that while it's fine to have an alternative view, calling it 'independent sage' is misleading and potentially confusing. 

 

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

There is one small positive to take from that. They said our death rate is unlikely to be overtaken until much of Europe is hit by a second wave. 
 

Our handling of this wave has been so shambolic then there’s a chance that anyone who was likely to catch it and be affected by the virus has already come into contact with it. A second wave will probably have minimal effect on our population.

It also fits in with the Governments original herd immunity plan. A horrendous amount of people have died prematurely and that’s on the governments hands. I’m just hoping it can’t get any worse. 

Apart from all those at home with pre existing conditions and the over 70s ? Quite a few of us left I would imagine !! 

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

Apart from all those at home with pre existing conditions and the over 70s ? Quite a few of us left I would imagine !! 

The vast majority of positive tests described in the article were for people who showed no symptoms. There’s a high chance that even though we have been isolating, we may have already have come into contact with the virus before lockdown.  I certainly think I’ve had it, working with the public in close proximity means you yourself could have easily come into contact with it and not shown symptoms. 
 

We really need that antibody test to be rolled out and then we can get a true picture of how many people have actually come into contact with the virus as I believe it’s vastly higher than our woefully low testing figures suggest. 
 

 

[gigpusher]

47 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Is it the right thing to do to lockdown again over 79 cases though?  Cases are never going to be zero, at least not for the foreseeable.  79 over a whole country isn't that many and could still be manageable with social distancing etc and don't they have a good track/test system there also?   Maybe there is a balance somewhere in between.

Didn't New Zealand have a day with no new cases the other day? We locked down too late by far. Once too large a number of people have it then trying to get the levels down is akin to trying to get the toothpaste back into the tube. 

I have noticed since the Cummings story broke that around where I live lockdown is over. I am still trying to adhere to 2m etc but not many are. I feel truly sorry for anyone who is vulnerable because you can only stay so alert. We can all only police our own behaviour. I've had people cycle within about a foot of me. people reach over me at the shop to get things. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

The vast majority of positive tests described in the article were for people who showed no symptoms. There’s a high chance that even though we have been isolating, we may have already have come into contact with the virus before lockdown.  I certainly think I’ve had it, working with the public in close proximity means you yourself could have easily come into contact with it and not shown symptoms. 
 

We really need that antibody test to be rolled out and then we can get a true picture of how many people have actually come into contact with the virus as I believe it’s vastly higher than our woefully low testing figures suggest. 
 

 

The antibody test is available for everyone, depends if you want to pay £69 though. 

[gigpusher]

4 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

The vast majority of positive tests described in the article were for people who showed no symptoms. There’s a high chance that even though we have been isolating, we may have already have come into contact with the virus before lockdown.  I certainly think I’ve had it, working with the public in close proximity means you yourself could have easily come into contact with it and not shown symptoms. 
 

We really need that antibody test to be rolled out and then we can get a true picture of how many people have actually come into contact with the virus as I believe it’s vastly higher than our woefully low testing figures suggest. 
 

 

Yes I'd be keen to take the antibody test. I had similar symptoms at the end of last year and if there is a chance that it has been around longer than they initially said then I certainly could have had it. 

[Simsy]

16 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

The more I think about this track and trace thing the more issues I think of. Say you work in a supermarket. As much as you try to social distance from your colleagues, it's probably inevitable you will get without 2m of a few of them within a week (I certainly see this among staff at my local Tesco). Will you remember all of them? Or is it easier just to name everyone who was on shift with you, which would cause a lot of hassle for the managers booking rotas? I think whether or not people can get sick pay for self isolation is going to be crucial here too.

Good questions, there do seem to be a lot of potential holes in the track and trace system (which probably wouldn't matter so much if it was brought in when we only had a handful of cases).

Re. the app, it's a while since I've done shop and factory work but back when I did my phone would have to stay in a locker for my shift. Would employers allow people to keep their phones on them for covid tracking?

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The antibody test is available for everyone, depends if you want to pay £69 though. 

I thought that was being withdrawn as it wasn’t getting accurate results?

[Cream Soda]

2 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Didn't New Zealand have a day with no new cases the other day? We locked down too late by far. Once too large a number of people have it then trying to get the levels down is akin to trying to get the toothpaste back into the tube. 

Yes, but as you say it's too late for that here.

[Cream Soda]

3 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Re. the app, it's a while since I've done shop and factory work but back when I did my phone would have to stay in a locker for my shift. Would employers allow people to keep their phones on them for covid tracking?

Wouldn't be any point unless it was unlocked 🤣

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

3 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

I thought that was being withdrawn as it wasn’t getting accurate results?

I hadn’t read that but just had a google and saw the story.

Its the same test as approved by PHE but it appears the concerns about accuracy stem from people’s ability to take their own blood as well as a nurse would.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[zahidf]

US putting big money in the oxford vaccine

[zahidf]

More vaccine news overall 

https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/05/what-are-the-top-5-most-promising-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

10 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Good questions, there do seem to be a lot of potential holes in the track and trace system (which probably wouldn't matter so much if it was brought in when we only had a handful of cases).

Re. the app, it's a while since I've done shop and factory work but back when I did my phone would have to stay in a locker for my shift. Would employers allow people to keep their phones on them for covid tracking?

Good point. They might have to allow them to have them for this reason.

Re the antibody test - is there actually a reliable one available now? Thought it was still disputed in terms of accuracy.

[jparx]

 

Jesus. Yes I'm a Labour voter, but we all need the government to get this right. Normally I'd be laughing at their incompetence but with this kinda stuff it's just scary.

[Crazyfool01]

18 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

The vast majority of positive tests described in the article were for people who showed no symptoms. There’s a high chance that even though we have been isolating, we may have already have come into contact with the virus before lockdown.  I certainly think I’ve had it, working with the public in close proximity means you yourself could have easily come into contact with it and not shown symptoms. 
 

We really need that antibody test to be rolled out and then we can get a true picture of how many people have actually come into contact with the virus as I believe it’s vastly higher than our woefully low testing figures suggest. 
 

 

 I’m hoping I have ... I was I’ll over xmas ... and recently during lockdown my blood sugars shot up massively and I had a job controlling them ... I’ve restored them now and my insulin has fallen to previous levels  and had a tight chest ... so an infection to me seems likely ... covid I’m not sure !! Antibody thing is desperately needed for me for sure 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Good point. They might have to allow them to have them for this reason.

Re the antibody test - is there actually a reliable one available now? Thought it was still disputed in terms of accuracy.

You could buy the the same antibody test that has been approved by PHE for about £70 from places like Superdrug. I think it’s accuracy was meant to be something like 98.8%.

Its been withdrawn over concerns that people can’t take the blood sample from their finger as well as nurse could and this could affect the test results.

So no issues with the accuracy of the actual test itself, just the means of gathering the blood that is then tested.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[squirrelarmy]

2 minutes ago, jparx said:

 

Jesus. Yes I'm a Labour voter, but we all need the government to get this right. Normally I'd be laughing at their incompetence but with this kinda stuff it's just scary.

Can I get a show of hands from people who trust Dido Harding with their personal data?

If you’re not sure who she is, she was in charge of talktalk when they ‘lost’ the details of 9 million customers. 

[MrZigster]

28 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

We really need that antibody test to be rolled out and then we can get a true picture of how many people have actually come into contact with the virus as I believe it’s vastly higher than our woefully low testing figures suggest. 

Yep. If I could find out if I've had it I'd feel a lot less paranoid. Could definitely go back to work.

21 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The antibody test is available for everyone, depends if you want to pay £69 though. 

Thought I'd read the results were unreliable and latest advice was not to use. I can see you've since googled that. Don't get the "people aren't taking their blood properly" logic. Blood is blood right? As long as you don't contaminate it. How are people messing this up?

19 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

I thought that was being withdrawn as it wasn’t getting accurate results?

Beat me to it.

5 minutes ago, jparx said:

Jesus. Yes I'm a Labour voter, but we all need the government to get this right. Normally I'd be laughing at their incompetence but with this kinda stuff it's just scary.

I couldn't believe I was practically screaming for a tory government to get all totalitarian on our arses at the start of this. 

[Cream Soda]

18 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Good point. They might have to allow them to have them for this reason.

They would have to allow them to have them in their hand constantly unlocked for the app to work in its current form.  

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

You could buy the the same antibody test that has been approved by PHE for about £70 from places like Superdrug. I think it’s accuracy was meant to be something like 98.8%.

Its been withdrawn over concerns that people can’t take the blood sample from their finger as well as nurse could and this could affect the test results.

So no issues with the accuracy of the actual test itself, just the means of gathering the blood that is then tested.

cant see it anywhere on superdrug website .... maybe its not available online ...

[stuartbert two hats]

Can we talk about the Oxford vaccine?  Here's what I think we know so far:

• It's likely to be the first vaccine available in the UK at scale - to start vaccinating almost half the population (30m doses) around September/October.
• It appears to be safe, so far.
• Animal trials have shown the following results
  • It protects against pneumonia - in the small trial offering 100% protection.
  • It substantially reduces the viral load in the respiratory tract. 
  • It does not affect the viral load in the nasal tract - so you can still be infectious!
  • We don't know (or I couldn't find any data on) how it affects your infectious period.  You would imagine it does, but unclear.

So, is this vaccine good enough to start opening up society again? It seems that lots of weight is still being thrown behind it, so it's obviously going ahead, but the viral load being unaffected in the very area where most shedding occurs seems worrying.  

I expect to advise my parents to get it, but is is enough for "this shit to end"?  Will it get us back to Worthy?

EDIT: paging @Toilet Duck for an expert opinion!

Edited May 28, 2020 by stuartbert two hats

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

cant see it anywhere on superdrug website .... maybe its not available online ...

Yeah they’ve withdrawn it now over concerns regarding people’s ability to take their blood properly from the finger prick test.