When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

31 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

 

Christ our media are a joke. How can you “return” to a rule that’s never existed? 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

18 minutes ago, xxialac said:

There are five key elements: 1) policy 2) communication 3) enforcement 4) leading by example and 5) personal responsibility.

Government are responsible for the first 4 and if 5) isn't sufficient to stabilise the situation they have it in their control to adjust the other measures until this occurs.

But they don't.

 

While I don't totally disagree there is a fairly clear policy and has been for a while - they don't keep changing adding a new Tier isn't exactly unreasonable as the situation changes.

The Tiers are pretty clear and people know they are breaking the rules. They just don't care. 

So while.commnincation could perhaps be improved - although there are plenty of ways to check your tier and the restrictions online. Most local authority websites explain it, local papers and I've had 2 letters from the council telling me the rules (when restrictions changed) telling me what they are and where to check them.

I agree about enforcement, but that is a slippery slope. People just don't care my small street is full of what are on the face of it normal law abiding citizens constantly breaking the rules. 

House opposite has people staying over Xmas, and other occasions. Few doors up has throughout had a steady processions of grown up kids and their families daily. The Sunday dinner crowds at a couple.of other houses. I know through friends that the local authority here had to send out some strongly worded reminders to staff about their responsibility to follow the rules after a number of infections brought about by inter household mixing while in T3. How do.you enforce that? Short of knocking on doors and asking who is in there, which isn't going to end well.

A woman my other half works with must have more bubbles than a cellar of champagne - claims she doesn't know the rules or understand the rules, she's a well paid Business Analyst she's not stupid and she's more than capable of finding them she just doesn't think they should apply to her and her kids. Other excuses peddled out are but schools are open so what's the point? How do you combat that sort of attitude? 

Its not hard to follow the rules, and it's not hard to find them out if your not sure. The problem is there are a lot of dicks and nothing ANY government will do can fix that. 

[Ozanne]

I still find it amazing that people are finding excuses for the government despite everything that has happened there are still ways some are finding to give them a small out. The government want us to blame each other, it’s let’s them off the hook and changes the narrative that way. 

[Chapple12345]

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

While I don't totally disagree there is a fairly clear policy and has been for a while - they don't keep changing adding a new Tier isn't exactly unreasonable as the situation changes.

The Tiers are pretty clear and people know they are breaking the rules. They just don't care. 

So while.commnincation could perhaps be improved - although there are plenty of ways to check your tier and the restrictions online. Most local authority websites explain it, local papers and I've had 2 letters from the council telling me the rules (when restrictions changed) telling me what they are and where to check them.

I agree about enforcement, but that is a slippery slope. People just don't care my small street is full of what are on the face of it normal law abiding citizens constantly breaking the rules. 

House opposite has people staying over Xmas, and other occasions. Few doors up has throughout had a steady processions of grown up kids and their families daily. The Sunday dinner crowds at a couple.of other houses. I know through friends that the local authority here had to send out some strongly worded reminders to staff about their responsibility to follow the rules after a number of infections brought about by inter household mixing while in T3. How do.you enforce that? Short of knocking on doors and asking who is in there, which isn't going to end well.

A woman my other half works with must have more bubbles than a cellar of champagne - claims she doesn't know the rules or understand the rules, she's a well paid Business Analyst she's not stupid and she's more than capable of finding them she just doesn't think they should apply to her and her kids. Other excuses peddled out are but schools are open so what's the point? How do you combat that sort of attitude? 

Its not hard to follow the rules, and it's not hard to find them out if your not sure. The problem is there are a lot of dicks and nothing ANY government will do can fix that. 

Support bubbles are well meaning and probably not too dangerous in themselves given that the whole bubble isolates if someone tests positive, but my god the bubble system is incredibly easy to manipulate.

 

Any time anyone gets stopped by a police officer in tier 4 “Just visiting my bubble, officer” 

[xxialac]

Ideally the government gets it right to begin with.

But having got it disastrously wrong, it should learn from its mistakes.

So if people are dicks, move to a higher level of restrictions, act swiftly and show some bloody leadership.

If we end up with pretty much the worst Covid numbers and worst economy, it's the government that has to take the blame. Were the reverse true after all, they would be only too happy to capitalise on all the praise.

 

[Ryan1984]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Support bubbles are well meaning and probably not too dangerous in themselves given that the whole bubble isolates if someone tests positive, but my god the bubble system is incredibly easy to manipulate.

 

Any time anyone gets stopped by a police officer in tier 4 “Just visiting my bubble, officer” 

You’ve also got people not understanding/adhering to the bubbles. One household only - I know a few people who decided to bubble with their parents/family l yet still went on holidays with partners with r friends who they hadn’t bubbled with!

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

You’ve also got people not understanding/adhering to the bubbles. One household only - I know a few people who decided to bubble with their parents/family l yet still went on holidays with partners with r friends who they hadn’t bubbled with!

Yep. They should bombard us with repetitive visual adverts showing what is and what isn't a bubble, so that people can't conveniently pretend they hadn't understood. But they don't.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

13 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

You’ve also got people not understanding/adhering to the bubbles. One household only - I know a few people who decided to bubble with their parents/family l yet still went on holidays with partners with r friends who they hadn’t bubbled with!

Did they really not understand though? Or did they just think fuck it I'm doing it my way anyway, what's the harm?

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I still find it amazing that people are finding excuses for the government despite everything that has happened there are still ways some are finding to give them a small out. The government want us to blame each other, it’s let’s them off the hook and changes the narrative that way. 

Its a mix. The govt have fuckdd up but people aren't following the rules as much anymore and finidning excuses not to. Its not binary 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Did they really not understand though? Or did they just think fuck it I'm doing it my way anyway, what's the harm?

They probably didn't spend a lot of time working out if they are breaking the rules.

[WestCountryGirl]

7 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Did they really not understand though? Or did they just think fuck it I'm doing it my way anyway, what's the harm?

These are the people I take issue with. A former colleague of mine (and friend) spent Christmas with her whole family - four households, including school children of all ages, and people who don't work from home - and she is shamelessly telling people that she spent Christmas with her "bubble". There is zero chance she doesn't know the rules, she works in a freaking medical school (in a non-clinical context, I should say).

Edited January 4, 2021 by WestCountryGirl

[FloorFiller]

Every bit of leeway in the rules that the government has given has largely been stretched as far as possible by a lot of people, so the moment the bubble thing was introduced it quickly became ‘go hang out with as many people as you can and call it a bubble just as long as they’re close family and/or mates’.

[Ozanne]

35 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Ideally the government gets it right to begin with.

But having got it disastrously wrong, it should learn from its mistakes.

So if people are dicks, move to a higher level of restrictions, act swiftly and show some bloody leadership.

If we end up with pretty much the worst Covid numbers and worst economy, it's the government that has to take the blame. Were the reverse true after all, they would be only too happy to capitalise on all the praise.

 

Yeah exactly and the people that want to let the government off the hook will say ‘no other country...’ missing the fact that there are countries that have handled this fairly well.

It’s unforgivable that the Tories haven’t learnt from their many previous mistakes. The government have been missing over Christmas and we shouldn’t let the narrative be switched to blaming each other. 

[Copperface]

😷.

"Professor Stephen Powis, national medical director of NHS England, has told BBC Breakfast he hopes the country may be able to get back to "normal ways of life" by the summer.

Asked if he can suggest a timeline for when people can go to restaurants or book a holiday, he said: "Like everybody, I'm hoping that when we get into the spring and into the summer we will be able to get more back towards those normal ways of life."

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

😷.

"Professor Stephen Powis, national medical director of NHS England, has told BBC Breakfast he hopes the country may be able to get back to "normal ways of life" by the summer.

Asked if he can suggest a timeline for when people can go to restaurants or book a holiday, he said: "Like everybody, I'm hoping that when we get into the spring and into the summer we will be able to get more back towards those normal ways of life."

Not knocking it but seeing as we were able to do both of those things as recently as a month or two ago, the aspiration seems low.

And certainly much lower than people's expectations which is surely that life will be fully back to normal by Summer.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its a mix. The govt have fuckdd up but people aren't following the rules as much anymore and finidning excuses not to. Its not binary 

Exactly this. The government can only do so much (whatever party is in power). Far too much willful ignorance.

[Copperface]

Just now, xxialac said:

Not knocking it but seeing as we were able to do both of those things as recently as a month or two ago, the aspiration seems low.

And certainly much lower than people's expectations which is surely that life will be fully back to normal by Summer.

I think we still have some who believe the 'no restrictions by Easter' wibble.

[Ozanne]

Consistently throughout the pandemic the government has acted too slowly, however they don’t even see that. 

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

I think we still have some who believe the 'no restrictions by Easter' wibble.

Medically it would be sensible to do that. However, politically this govt and with the backbenchers are clearly going to open up a lot earlier than they should.

I know how disappointing it will be for you personally if we do get back to normal earlier 

[zahidf]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Consistently throughout the pandemic the government has acted too slowly, however they don’t even see that. 

 

Tbf they have been criticised for doing that by their rebelling backbenchers 

[efcfanwirral]

 

55 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Support bubbles are well meaning and probably not too dangerous in themselves given that the whole bubble isolates if someone tests positive, but my god the bubble system is incredibly easy to manipulate.

 

Any time anyone gets stopped by a police officer in tier 4 “Just visiting my bubble, officer” 

 

26 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

Every bit of leeway in the rules that the government has given has largely been stretched as far as possible by a lot of people, so the moment the bubble thing was introduced it quickly became ‘go hang out with as many people as you can and call it a bubble just as long as they’re close family and/or mates’.

Problem is they're life saving in some circumstances- if my dad hadnt been helping my grandad throughout he wouldn't have got any food in, had his bed changed, his washing done, any cleaning done or his bins taken out. Ban that and any small quality of life he has is gone.

Alternative being a professional person who's been in loads of other houses or a care home which he doesnt really need ( just has some mobility issues). Both options probably leading to covid at some point in the time if we're honest. 

9 minutes ago, Copperface said:

😷.

"Professor Stephen Powis, national medical director of NHS England, has told BBC Breakfast he hopes the country may be able to get back to "normal ways of life" by the summer.

Asked if he can suggest a timeline for when people can go to restaurants or book a holiday, he said: "Like everybody, I'm hoping that when we get into the spring and into the summer we will be able to get more back towards those normal ways of life."

Ha. Goalposts are already moving with this south african strain being mentioned. I am confident that won't be the case.

Edited January 4, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

16 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah exactly and the people that want to let the government off the hook will say ‘no other country...’ missing the fact that there are countries that have handled this fairly well.

It’s unforgivable that the Tories haven’t learnt from their many previous mistakes. The government have been missing over Christmas and we shouldn’t let the narrative be switched to blaming each other. 

Its not about letting the government off the hook - they have got some things wrong like every other government in the world. Its a changing situation nobody is going to get it right all the time first time. It just doesn't happen. As you can see in every single country in the world - there will be things they would do differently now.

Surely you must be able to see it's not the government that are making people go to other houses etc... 

Edited January 4, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Nobody is going to get it right all the time first time. It just doesn't happen.

But unlike other governments, this government has got it wrong all the time first time (and subsequent times).

[jparx]

30 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its a mix. The govt have fuckdd up but people aren't following the rules as much anymore and finidning excuses not to. Its not binary 

Yep I totally agree. Ive repeatedly criticised the government but a portion of blame does rest on a chunk of the population though. People should be taking personal responsibility regardless of the government messaging, and I’ve spoken to people who criticise the government’s handling of this but then are freely breaking the rules. People should be trusted to act like adults. Unfortunately in my personal experience more and more people are not, they’re taking advantage or flat out ignoring the rules and the whole thing is almost becoming a joke with some people. We almost fell out with some family members over Christmas for refusing to come in when we dropped off presents, and these are seemingly sane people who stuck by the lockdown rules in March. The government have destroyed trust in their guidance but too many people have given up taking personal responsibility. 

Which is why I want to see a March style lockdown immediately. Same rules for all of us, no exceptions or caveats and actual enforcement of the rules.