When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, Euphoricape said:

Cornwall gone from being safest area in UK in tier 1, to now having the fastest rising rates in the country.. Surely tourism must be to blame? Very popular with Londoners down here.

 

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/uk-coronavirus-infection-rates_uk_5fef208ec5b61817a53659ed?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

 

Surely the government are to blame for that too? How they didn’t see that coming is pure basic levels of governance in a pandemic. 

[efcfanwirral]

Guess you can't distinguish between crowded and uncrowded so I assume this'll be masks whenever you leave your house. 

Would definitely put me off my daily walks, probably good as I've got way too much work to do! 

[efcfanwirral]

24 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Interesting article on pandemic response: be interested in @Toilet Duck view on it. Especially on whether people who have already had Covid being behind in the queue for vaccines

https://blog.supplysideliberal.com/post/2020/12/31/how-perfectionism-has-made-the-pandemic-worse

Could see 'covid parties' to get infected to avoid the vaccine being pretty widespread in that situation, with the obvious pressure on the testing system and nhs that comes from that. 

Would work perfectly in a country of sensible people though! 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Guess you can't distinguish between crowded and uncrowded so I assume this'll be masks whenever you leave your house. 

Would definitely put me off my daily walks, probably good as I've got way too much work to do! 

Total bollocks unless it’s enforced properly ... why don’t they sort out enforcement ?!  And this lax stuff around exexmption ... despite a case In my workplace last week we now have another 3 colleagues not wearing them .... it’s infuriating 

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Total bollocks unless it’s enforced properly ... why don’t they sort out enforcement ?!  And this lax stuff around exexmption ... despite a case In my workplace last week we now have another 3 colleagues not wearing them .... it’s infuriating 

In my local supermarket there are two staff who never wear their masks. All chavvy looking youngsters. And another who wears it round her chin...

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

In my local supermarket there are two staff who never wear their masks. All chavvy looking youngsters. And another who wears it round her chin...

I think we must be up close to around 40 now ..... 

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

I think we must be up close to around 40 now ..... 

40 staff not wearing them??? No wonder its spreading. People go on about the tiers not working when its just people 

All customers and most staff round here do wear them - I think we're lucky

[Chapple12345]

15 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Guess you can't distinguish between crowded and uncrowded so I assume this'll be masks whenever you leave your house. 

Would definitely put me off my daily walks, probably good as I've got way too much work to do! 

I'd assume they mean city centres, you wouldn't get a single person wearing them in the middle of the countryside if there were hardly any people around 

[Crazyfool01]

7 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

40 staff not wearing them??? No wonder its spreading. People go on about the tiers not working when its just people 

All customers and most staff round here do wear them - I think we're lucky

yep ... down the road at Sainsbury's not a single person I can see .... when the law came in in the early days there were about 5 !!! 

[Ozanne]

Hopefully not that niche a reference. 

[Lycra]

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This was reported yesterday but didn't say anything about people being left there to die of course:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55503536

The reality of reopening the Nightingales is that in order to staff them you have to thin out even more the already overstetched & exhausted doctors & nurses already caring for covid patients in hospitals. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Lycra said:

The reality of reopening the Nightingales is that in order to staff them you have to thin out even more the already overstetched & exhausted doctors & nurses already caring for covid patients in hospitals. 

and of course make sure the ones that we have dont become ill from covid by ensuring they get jabbed now !!!.... 😞 

[topmarksbri]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Hopefully not that niche a reference. 

What an act of cowardice...

[Fuzzy Afro]

48 minutes ago, Lycra said:

The reality of reopening the Nightingales is that in order to staff them you have to thin out even more the already overstetched & exhausted doctors & nurses already caring for covid patients in hospitals. 

Yep, which is why that Reddit poster had heard they’d be opened without specialist clinical staff and only used for patients rejected by triage. 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Yep, which is why that Reddit poster had heard they’d be opened without specialist clinical staff and only used for patients rejected by triage. 

I'm dubious about that, especially from a reddit guy 

[Toilet Duck]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

Interesting article on pandemic response: be interested in @Toilet Duck view on it. Especially on whether people who have already had Covid being behind in the queue for vaccines

https://blog.supplysideliberal.com/post/2020/12/31/how-perfectionism-has-made-the-pandemic-worse

There’s an element of truth in some of it, but there are some misconceptions. Vaccine efficacy seems to be a big focus, but it’s kind of misplaced (the regulators would have accepted a vaccine with a lower CI of 30%), plus, if that was the best we could do, then it may well have been deployed. As it happens, we have better vaccines anyway. Some in the comments raise challenge trials, personally I’m not a fan and you can’t really test for an incurable, possibly fatal disease in those who would get most benefit from the vaccine (in my mind it would be unethical).

The mask messaging early on was probably entirely driven by supply issues, but was damaging and should have been handled better, muddying the waters fuelled the kind of bipartisan feeling about them and honest guidance would have been better from the start.

I still think rapid tests are extremely useful, but they aren’t all created equal! Rejecting those made by reputable diagnostics firms in favour of homemade ones was where the mistake lay (the data on the SD biosensor and Abbott tests still looks useful to me).

Pooled PCR tests is how we run them, so not sure what the criticism is there, more likely the blogger hasn’t read the protocol (some places might still be using individual runs, but most use a matrix).

Stretching out the vaccine doses is experimental, though probably fine. At least for AZ there’s trial data to support it and boosting with a different vaccine is probably ok too (they all deliver the same immunogen) but obviously in a non-emergency situation, you’d avoid it. Safest way if the same vaccine wasn’t available for boosting dose would to be a quick titer of antibody, if levels are ok, wait for the availability of the same vaccine for dose 2, if antibodies have waned, use what’s available as the risk of complications is probably lower than the risk of getting infected (also depends on what the pandemic is doing at the time, if community levels are low, I’d just wait for the proper 2nd dose). Anyway, everyone is just having to adapt to a highly plastic situation on the fly, there are many imperfect decisions that have been and will continue to be made. Hopefully, we learn from them!

Edited January 2, 2021 by Toilet Duck

[Homer]

For those who were asking about schools, re Scotland, I happened to ask my mate this morning who is a teacher up there and he said their return has been delayed to the 18th.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

There’s an element of truth in some of it, but there are some misconceptions. Vaccine efficacy seems to be a big focus, but it’s kind of misplaced (the regulators would have accepted a vaccine with a lower CI of 30%), plus, if that was the best we could do, then it may well have been deployed. As it happens, we have better vaccines anyway. Some in the comments raise challenge trials, personally I’m not a fan and you can’t really test for an incurable, possibly fatal disease in those who would get most benefit from the vaccine (in my mind it would be unethical).

The mask messaging early on was probably entirely driven by supply issues, but was damaging and should have been handled better, muddying the waters fuelled the kind of bipartisan feeling about them and honest guidance would have been better from the start.

I still think rapid tests are extremely useful, but they aren’t all created equal! Rejecting those made by reputable diagnostics firms in favour of homemade ones was where the mistake lay (the data on the SD biosensor and Abbott tests still looks useful to me).

Pooled PCR tests is how we run them, so not sure what the criticism is there, more likely the blogger hasn’t read the protocol (some places might still be using individual runs, but lost use a matrix).

Stretching out the vaccine doses is experimental, though probably fine. At least for AZ there’s trial data to support it and boosting with a different vaccine is probably ok too (they all deliver the same immunogen) but obviously in a non-emergency situation, you’d avoid it. Safest way if the same vaccine wasn’t available for boosting dose would to be a quick titer of antibody, if levels are ok, wait for the availability of the same vaccine for dose 2, if antibodies have waned, use what’s available as the risk of complications is probably lower than the risk of getting infected (also depends on what the pandemic is doing at the time, if community levels are low, I’d just wait for the proper 2nd dose). Anyway, everyone is just having to adapt to a highly plastic situation on the fly, there are many imperfect decisions that have been and will continue to be made. Hopefully, we learn from them!

Cool thanks!

[Crazyfool01]

How long do we give it until the National primary school U turn ?

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, Lycra said:

The reality of reopening the Nightingales is that in order to staff them you have to thin out even more the already overstetched & exhausted doctors & nurses already caring for covid patients in hospitals. 

Yep I'm aware of that issue. My post was in response to Fuzzy Afro saying he'd seen on Reddit that the London one was being reopened to let people die in; he didn't have a source so was just providing one to the fact it was being readied for use. Under no illusions it's going to solve anything as staffing is the issue.

[stuartbert two hats]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

How long do we give it until the National primary school U turn ?

9 days is my random guess. Enough time for them to go back and get infected, not enough time to learn enough to be worth their while going.

[Billy Corgan's Ego]

16 minutes ago, Homer said:

For those who were asking about schools, re Scotland, I happened to ask my mate this morning who is a teacher up there and he said their return has been delayed to the 18th.

This is all education and childcare, including nursery.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

9 days is my random guess. Enough time for them to go back and get infected, not enough time to learn enough to be worth their while going.

Unions pressing for it ... might be before Monday .... Sunday 11pm on tick tock would be my guess 

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Unions pressing for it ... might be before Monday .... Sunday 11pm on tick tock would be my guess 

I’d go Monday evening after Starmer starts calling for it this evening/tomorrow morning. 

[efcfanwirral]

This sort of thing makes it more likely they'll be sent back due to Tory (and their voters!)  contempt for Unions 

Edited January 2, 2021 by efcfanwirral