When will this shit end?

[gizmoman]

5 hours ago, mcshed said:

That is why @gizmoman is posting it as he loves a dangerous conspiracy.

It's a scientific theory, the guy is a top vaccine researcher, no conspiracy claimed, he just happens to have a different view of the science. I posted it to try get some insight into it as it's pretty dense scientific detail. We are in the middle of the biggest experiment ever conducted, we need to analyse and question everything, the initial trials on the vaccines showed they should be safe, they didn't tell us how they would work when used en masse in the real world. this guy's theories may be wrong but they are based on complex science not some spurious conspiracy.

[zahidf]

 

[JoeyT]

 

[JoeyT]

25 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

94% against ASYMPTOMATIC infections as well.

Incredible results.

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

Usefull stuff ... we will see the positives from school testing on there I would guess ... and be able to have a more like for like comparison ? 

[Guest]

The dashboard has become a really good, detailed source of the UK’s COVID situation. It’s one of the things the government have done really well with. 

[zahidf]

 

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

It's a scientific theory, the guy is a top vaccine researcher, no conspiracy claimed, he just happens to have a different view of the science. I posted it to try get some insight into it as it's pretty dense scientific detail. We are in the middle of the biggest experiment ever conducted, we need to analyse and question everything, the initial trials on the vaccines showed they should be safe, they didn't tell us how they would work when used en masse in the real world. this guy's theories may be wrong but they are based on complex science not some spurious conspiracy.

This one man's theory isn't a conspiracy, if you have hundreds of academics working on something those at the fringes will come up with some very wild hypotheses, sometimes they are even proven to be correct after more evidence appears and the consensus moves. What is a conspiracy is your interest in him, you are only interested because his view is against the consensus, I'm assuming you came across this research from some other conspiracy minded part of the internet and you were excited to share it as widely as possible.

[hodgey123]

Think the slowing post rate in this thread is in itself indicative of the more positive situation we are finding ourselves in. 

[gizmoman]

4 minutes ago, mcshed said:

This one man's theory isn't a conspiracy, if you have hundreds of academics working on something those at the fringes will come up with some very wild hypotheses, sometimes they are even proven to be correct after more evidence appears and the consensus moves. What is a conspiracy is your interest in him, you are only interested because his view is against the consensus, I'm assuming you came across this research from some other conspiracy minded part of the internet and you were excited to share it as widely as possible.

"you are only interested because his view is against the consensus" yes you're right, the mainstream view, and one that is the most popular on here, is that the vaccines are 100% safe and that everyone should get them, there is little to no alternative voiced in the main media, and the reason  is that would fuel "vaccine hesitancy" and encourage the anti-vaxxers, the fact is that IF there were concerns about some aspect of the vaccine rollout it would be very difficult to get any information on it except for "conspiracy minded parts of the internet", the main media wouldn't want to publicise it whether it had merit or not. It is clear that on here no one wants to hear about any possible negative impact of vaccination, THAT is what is truly dangerous, the unthinking acceptance of what the government is pretty much forcing on us, it may well be that in time it will be proved to be the right course of action and the scientific community were right to have such faith in the vaccines, lets hope so, in the meantime I'll continue to be open to questioning of the governments strategy and the science behind it where ever it comes from.

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, gizmoman said:

"you are only interested because his view is against the consensus" yes you're right, the mainstream view, and one that is the most popular on here, is that the vaccines are 100% safe and that everyone should get them, there is little to no alternative voiced in the main media, and the reason  is that would fuel "vaccine hesitancy" and encourage the anti-vaxxers, the fact is that IF there were concerns about some aspect of the vaccine rollout it would be very difficult to get any information on it except for "conspiracy minded parts of the internet", the main media wouldn't want to publicise it whether it had merit or not. It is clear that on here no one wants to hear about any possible negative impact of vaccination, THAT is what is truly dangerous, the unthinking acceptance of what the government is pretty much forcing on us, it may well be that in time it will be proved to be the right course of action and the scientific community were right to have such faith in the vaccines, lets hope so, in the meantime I'll continue to be open to questioning of the governments strategy and the science behind it where ever it comes from.

Keep posting, I'm sure others will keep responding. The constructive responses are great, providing broad background and valuable information that can help to combat suspicion and doubt that is too often ignored in the headline news.

[northernringo]

27 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Think the slowing post rate in this thread is in itself indicative of the more positive situation we are finding ourselves in. 

I was thinking that the other day too but then realised it is probably also because of the politics thread being created - there was a lot of non covid politics chat in here not that long ago!

[northernringo]

Definitely an uptick in cases within NI this week and a pretty substantial increase in deaths today and yesterday.

[aj6658]

19 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

"you are only interested because his view is against the consensus" yes you're right, the mainstream view, and one that is the most popular on here, is that the vaccines are 100% safe and that everyone should get them, there is little to no alternative voiced in the main media, and the reason  is that would fuel "vaccine hesitancy" and encourage the anti-vaxxers, the fact is that IF there were concerns about some aspect of the vaccine rollout it would be very difficult to get any information on it except for "conspiracy minded parts of the internet", the main media wouldn't want to publicise it whether it had merit or not. It is clear that on here no one wants to hear about any possible negative impact of vaccination, THAT is what is truly dangerous, the unthinking acceptance of what the government is pretty much forcing on us, it may well be that in time it will be proved to be the right course of action and the scientific community were right to have such faith in the vaccines, lets hope so, in the meantime I'll continue to be open to questioning of the governments strategy and the science behind it where ever it comes from.

Don't think anyone has ever said they're  are 100% safe. I think people on here are following the scientists which overwhelmingly say we should take it.  God knows how many scientists and researchers have reviewed the data and who haven't raised alarms. 

 

if it was switched around and the vast majority of scientists said it wasn't safe but a small number said that it would cure COVID, who would you listen to? 

 

You say you are happy to question the science - do you actually understand the science? 

[JoeyT]

 

[northernringo]

16 minutes ago, northernringo said:

Definitely an uptick in cases within NI this week and a pretty substantial increase in deaths today and yesterday.

26 deaths in the past 7 days, up from 17 in the 7 days before that. 17 of those deaths have been in the last two days (only 3 outside the reporting period).

[Hannibal Schmitt]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

from guardian live feed...

Denmark’s national health agency has said it is temporarily suspending inoculations with the AstraZeneca vaccine after blood clots formed in several people who had the jab, one of whom has reportedly died.

The agency said on Thursday that it had not conclusively established a link between the clots and the vaccine, but said it had asked the regional authorities in charge of the vaccination rollout to stop using the AstraZeneca shot for the time being.

The agency said it would reassess the situation in consultation with the Danish medicines agency in two weeks but stressed there was “good evidence that the vaccine is both safe and effective”.

“We are in the middle of the largest and most important vaccination rollout in Danish history,” Søren Brostrøm, the agency’s director, said. “Right now we need all the vaccines we can get. It is therefore not an easy decision to put one on pause.”

But he added: “Precisely because we are vaccinating so many people, we also need to respond promptly and carefully when we have knowledge of possible serious side effects. We need to clarify this before we can continue using the AstraZeneca vacine.”

Danish media said the suspension meant people who have had an initial shot of the Anglo-Swedish vaccine would not receive a second jab for the time being and all AstraZeneca vaccination slots had been cancelled.

Denmark has been ahead of most of the rest of the EU27 with its vaccination rollout and has already

Norway going the same way as Denmark and are also stopping AstraZeneca for the time being

[JoeyT]

 

[mcshed]

35 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

there is little to no alternative voiced in the main media, and the reason  is that would fuel "vaccine hesitancy" and encourage the anti-vaxxers, the fact is that IF there were concerns about some aspect of the vaccine rollout it would be very difficult to get any information on it except for "conspiracy minded parts of the internet", the main media wouldn't want to publicise it whether it had merit or not. It is clear that on here no one wants to hear about any possible negative impact of vaccination

If there was significant scientific dispute about the merits of the vaccines then that would be reported by the main stream media and would make governments hesitant to approve wide scale use of the vaccines. But there isn't so when the main stream media does cover the concerns that the likes of you raise it is in articles like "Are the vaccines safe?" which will talk about the concerns and will explain why the consensus view is that they are of little or or no merit.

If there were significant doubts that were being ignored it would be huge news and so somebody would print it.

[balthazarstarbuck]

8 minutes ago, mcshed said:

If there were significant doubts that were being ignored it would be huge news and so somebody would print it.

And misgivings are reported as well - you only have to look at the reports in Denmark today and the slightest concern on any variant might impact the vaccine.

The idea the media are whitewashing vaccines isn’t true.

[JoeyT]

 

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, gizmoman said:

It's a scientific theory, the guy is a top vaccine researcher, no conspiracy claimed, he just happens to have a different view of the science. I posted it to try get some insight into it as it's pretty dense scientific detail. We are in the middle of the biggest experiment ever conducted, we need to analyse and question everything, the initial trials on the vaccines showed they should be safe, they didn't tell us how they would work when used en masse in the real world. this guy's theories may be wrong but they are based on complex science not some spurious conspiracy.

It's somewhat interesting that before you've pushed before the idea that governments are using fear around the virus to keep us locked-down where possible, and monitored where not. While I think that's nonsense, if there were such a conspiracy, I would say the scientist advocating "stop vaccinating people right now" would be at the forefront of it. Given that if he got his way we'd be back in lockdown again for the foreseeable future.

[Dom Wall]

45 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

Vaccinations really are going well if we've managed to get more than 100% of the 75-79 year olds.

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, aj6658 said:

Don't think anyone has ever said they're  are 100% safe. I think people on here are following the scientists which overwhelmingly say we should take it.  God knows how many scientists and researchers have reviewed the data and who haven't raised alarms. 

 

if it was switched around and the vast majority of scientists said it wasn't safe but a small number said that it would cure COVID, who would you listen to? 

 

You say you are happy to question the science - do you actually understand the science? 

The majority of scientists are saying there's no evidence (or not enough) that Vitamin D helps protect against Covid, a small number believe it does, on this one I'm going with the minority not because I'm a contrarian but because even if they are wrong there is no risk in taking Vit D supplements. In your example I wouldn't take it as the risk would far outweigh the benefit, even if I caught Covid there is a very good chance I would be minimally affected.

"do you actually understand the science? " Do any of us? (Toilet Duck excepted), that is part of the problem, it is very difficult for a layman to read a complex scientific paper and decide if it is valid so we are left with the views of experts, and they have differing views, you can choose to trust the consensus but the majority are not always right.

[Leyrulion]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

not because I'm a contrarian but because even if they are wrong there is no risk in taking Vit D supplements

There's a benefit to taking vit d supplements outside of covid.