2021 Headliners

[fraybentos1]

Heather Mills has claimed that Paul McCartney used to abuse her. Are you comfortable with him headlining Glasto? Why don't we berate all Beatles fans about this too while we are at it. @Matt42

Edited July 7, 2020 by dandandan95

[IntoTheSurf]

Every time I log onto efests and read a post thinking ‘what is this shit?’ It’s always Matt42

[Matt42]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Caroline Flack basically did exactly the same thing, do you therefore agree with the media hounding her until she killed herself?

Again. Not talking about the problem. I think this is incredibly insulting to suggest I would make this connection. Why on earth have you conflated opening a conversation about domestic abuse with media hounding someone to death. Of course I don’t think that’s okay. I’m frankly disgusted you want to make that connection.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

This is the same argumenr as the people who blame Grime Music for people being stabbed.

------------

Tom may still have a career, Chris Brown has managed it.

But Even from only 10 years ago, times how changed. 

What? Again. “Whataboutery” instead of talking about the problem. I want to talk about the problem I raised not something else.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Again. Not talking about the problem. I think this is incredibly insulting to suggest I would make this connection. Why on earth have you conflated opening a conversation about domestic abuse with media hounding someone to death. Of course I don’t think that’s okay. I’m frankly disgusted you want to make that connection.

Why have you equated domestic abuse with raping a child?

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Again. Not talking about the problem.

I brought up Ian Watkins because its clear we don’t allow a platform for abusers in the music industry since artists are influential people and have a gigantic platform. I used Ian Watkins as an example that sometimes rehabilitation is not enough to let someone go back to their career.

Society will not allow Watkins to continue his career by not listening to his music, buying his records or watching him play. He doesn’t need any further censure. Do you really think he’s going to walk straight out of prison and on to Top of the Pops?*

*Yes I know it doesn’t exist anymore.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Just now, Matt42 said:

What? Again. “Whataboutery” instead of talking about the problem. I want to talk about the problem I raised not something else.

No it's not "whataboutery".

Im saying - you are using the same argument that others use about a separate issue.

Im not debating whether you are right or wrong.

 

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, dandandan95 said:

Heather Mills has claimed that Paul McCartney used to abuse her. Are you comfortable with him headlining Glasto? Why don't we berate all Beatles fans about this too while we are at it.

Again. “What about this celebrity”

I’m talking about the fact that Tom has pleaded guilty, gone to court, and been sentenced. And some fans are more bothered about when he’s going to come back to music.

Avoiding the problem by throwing up something else and derailing.

Surely this confirms my point that fans letting things go under and excusing abuse has been a long running issue?

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Again. Not talking about the problem. I think this is incredibly insulting to suggest I would make this connection. Why on earth have you conflated opening a conversation about domestic abuse with media hounding someone to death. Of course I don’t think that’s okay. I’m frankly disgusted you want to make that connection.

Comparing Tom Meighan to Ian Watkins removes any right of yours to take a moral high ground.

[Quark]

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

The fact that many users here still seem adamant to give him the benefit of the doubt, they are not questioning the sentence, and instead thinking about his feelings rather in a trial by media rather than actually engaging with the wider problems.

I've read back through the last few pages, and I honestly can't find anyone giving him the benefit of the doubt, or saying anything other than that he's got off lightly with his sentence. There's points made about the role of rehabilitation in the justice system and what career options can or should be open to someone after they've served whatever punishment they get.

Homer wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt or worrying about his feelings, he was pointing out that from his reaction there may be genuine contrition and an intention to atone for what he's done.

And regardless of what happened with Caroline Flack it's wise to avoid trial by media, feelings or no feelings.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, dandandan95 said:

Why have you equated domestic abuse with raping a child?

Because both are horrendous crimes that leave scars for life

some domestic abuse victims are totally broken for life. I know them.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Matt42

[CaledonianGonzo]

Mind is boggling at the thought of a solo album by this guy.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Again. “What about this celebrity”

I’m talking about the fact that Tom has pleaded guilty, gone to court, and been sentenced. And some fans are more bothered about when he’s going to come back to music.

Avoiding the problem by throwing up something else and derailing.

Surely this confirms my point that fans letting things go under and excusing abuse has been a long running issue?

A few hours ago you told me to always side with the abuser! 

You have lost any point you have by generalising an entire group of people who like 'indie' music. It reeks of snobbery to me.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass said:

Comparing Tom Meighan to Ian Watkins removes any right of yours to take a moral high ground.

They both did things which will scar their victims for life.

[Matt42]

Just now, dandandan95 said:

A few hours ago you told me to always side with the abuser! 

You have lost any point you have by generalising an entire group of people who like 'indie' music. It reeks of snobbery to me.

What? Where did I tell you to side with the abuser?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Matt42

[Quark]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

Mind is boggling at the thought of a solo album by this guy.

Don't lie, you'd be on it like a fly on a cowpat

[FuzzyDunlop]

Plus matt - to some degree, I get your point... but you are skirting around the issue.

You are equating violence to the music.

The issue has nothing to do with music. It's a society issue. 

[dentalplan]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

What? Again. “Whataboutery” instead of talking about the problem. I want to talk about the problem I raised not something else.

The problem of people morally excusing behaviour of celebrities is not new and everyone would have agreed if you just said that, even if it is a tricky line to be absolutely clear of because of the many problematic celebrities.

You said it was indie culture and then some quips about “lads lads lads” and “dark fruits” so it was easy to see what you were getting at. You now seem to be backtracking towards an agreeable point but still you seem surprised that people are calling out your divisive tribal.bullshit yet again and are painting people up as sympathisers for not going along with it.

[IntoTheSurf]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Because both are horrendous crimes that leave scars for life

some domestic abuse victims are totally broken for life. I know them.

Ah yes hitting someone is just as scarring as raping a newborn. I’m frankly disgusted you’d even equate these.

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Mind is boggling at the thought of a solo album by this guy.

It’s going to be a transcript of the last ten pages of this thread set to a house beat.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I wonder if the BBC knew this was coming given the way they pre-emptively excluded Kasabian's 2014 headline set from all of the 50th anniversary celebrations.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Again. Not talking about the problem. I think this is incredibly insulting to suggest I would make this connection. Why on earth have you conflated opening a conversation about domestic abuse with media hounding someone to death. Of course I don’t think that’s okay. I’m frankly disgusted you want to make that connection.

You’re the one who mentioned thinking of his feelings over trial by media, what on Earth were you talking about if not that?

[Matt42]

Just now, FuzzyDunlop said:

Plus matt - to some degree, I get your point... but you are skirting around the issue.

You are equating violence to the music.

The issue has nothing to do with music. It's a society issue. 

What on earth. No I am not I am saying that in indie/band culture we have seen examples of fans excusing their heroes with histories of domestic abuse. It’s something that all of us may have done, I was unaware that Paul mccarntey had a past. Yes there are hypocritical examples because this is a widespread issue which has been going on for some time. All I wanted was to open a conversation about how we can change moving forward as it’s too late to undo what has happened in the past. Unfortunately both John Lennon and Paul McCartney got away with their allegations because it was a different time. Let’s actually change things moving forward and recognise how we’ve allowed this culture to develop.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, IntoTheSurf said:

Ah yes hitting someone is just as scarring as raping a newborn. I’m frankly disgusted you’d even equate these.

Horrendous take

[Homer]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I wonder if the BBC knew this was coming given the way they pre-emptively excluded Kasabian's 2014 headline set from all of the 50th anniversary celebrations.

They probably thought there had been enough suffering already.