Brexit at Glasto?

[eFestivals]

40 minutes ago, stuie said:

I'm hopeful that we're watching the beginning of the end of the Tory party. 

don't waste your time on that one. If the tories die the attitudes of their voters aren't going to die with them.

It would be a meaningless victory. Something would replace the tories - and it might be worse.

[Matt42]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

don't waste your time on that one. If the tories die the attitudes of their voters aren't going to die with them.

It would be a meaningless victory. Something would replace the tories - and it might be worse.

It already exists. The Brexit Party are stealing older conservative voters.

[stuie]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

don't waste your time on that one. If the tories die the attitudes of their voters aren't going to die with them. 

It would be a meaningless victory. Something would replace the tories - and it might be worse.

Aren't the majority of conservative voters > 45 years old? 

I was hoping that they'd just die out eventually.

 

 

[priest17]

18 minutes ago, stuie said:

Aren't the majority of conservative voters > 45 years old? 

I was hoping that they'd just die out eventually.

 

 

There's plenty of young conservatives. And I imagine most of those over 45s were labour supporters in their youth.

[uscore]

I don't really understand Johnson's strategy. The heart of Johnson's messge "We can renegotiate a better Brexit deal, we don't want a no deal, but we'll do it if we have to" is essentially a dog whistle to the brexit fanatics who only hear "we will do a no-deal."

And Johnson knows there is no better deal, and that no-deal will be blocked by parliament.  So this will probably lead to a general election in which he campaigns on no-deal and will probably win.

Obviously they'll try to pin all the blame on the eu but once he and goes through with no deal, he owns it and can't avoid responsibilty for it.  And then he knows he'll be Prime Minister over a pretty difficult period of time too.

He's a racist lying buffon, sure, but he's not an idiot. He obviously doesn't believe no-deal Brexit is a going to be a wonderful feast of opportunity for Britain.  Is his entire strategy going to be blustering on about can-do attitudes and then blaming everyone else as it all goes shit?  Was he literally only interested in becoming Prime Minister by any means, and then worry about how to do the job once he's there?

[mashedonmud]

I'm off to a little private festival,  I'm gonna get spangled. I know getting spangled is not the answer to life's issues. But when I come round on Monday with the early news on tv and work back on the agenda, I'll have a damn good reason for feeling shit. ?

[brettredmayne]

I don't think Boris will want to go to a GE after parliament blocks no deal again, think a 2nd referendum would be safer for Boris as a GE would probably split the votes 4 ways

[eFestivals]

55 minutes ago, stuie said:

Aren't the majority of conservative voters > 45 years old? 

I was hoping that they'd just die out eventually.

people used to say that decades ago. It's not happening.

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, uscore said:

Was he literally only interested in becoming Prime Minister by any means, and then worry about how to do the job once he's there?

yes. His plan was always to be PM. He didn't have a plan for what he'd do if he was PM.

He'll wing the politics of it, going for whatever he thinks will work best for him.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, brettredmayne said:

I don't think Boris will want to go to a GE after parliament blocks no deal again, think a 2nd referendum would be safer for Boris as a GE would probably split the votes 4 ways

if he can do a deal with Farage then an election is more of a no-brainer than a 2nd ref, unfortunately.  

 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

At least Corbyn will fuck off if there’s an election.

[frostypaw]

1 hour ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

At least Corbyn will fuck off if there’s an election.

And magically the next Labour leader will be left alone and get a completely fair shot, as long as they drop all the policies that led to Labour experiencing a massive surge.

[Madyaker]

Rees Mogg and Bill Cash walking into number 10...

[Rose-Colored Boy]

23 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

And magically the next Labour leader will be left alone and get a completely fair shot, as long as they drop all the policies that led to Labour experiencing a massive surge.

What ‘massive surge’ is this? The latest poll had them in third place, at 19%.

No opposition leader is ever ‘left alone’, regardless of their policies. Even the vaguest sense of competency would be an improvement on the grumpy old git currently in the red corner - the current moment is not the time to be indulging ‘principled’ but divisive cranks who are more interested in foreign policy than in domestic issues, I’m afraid.

[frostypaw]

3 minutes ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

What ‘massive surge’ is this?

Are you unaware of how many new members Labour got, and how close they came to winning last election?

Your post just shows how well it's worked frankly. More interested in what? Good lord.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

10 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Are you unaware of how close they came to winning last election?

 

58 seats off forming any kind of majority, and at least 70-80 short of being able to govern with any authority. Against the most shambolic and uninspiring election campaign the Torys have ever run. And with all the signs indicating that at least a third of that 2017 Labour vote has switched to the Lib Dems in the two years since. Not to mention the party being under formal investigation by the EHRC, an honour only previously bestowed on the BNP. Terrific, well done Jeremy and Seumas.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Rose-Colored Boy

[frostypaw]

They didn't need to run a particularly effective one - they'd got so many people screaming it was an impossibility, that he was unelectable and that the Tories were going to sweep the board that they got cocky.

That still happened. A long way from the wipeout the doggedly anti-JC lot get.

The LD switch is over Brexit, more single-issue action. Anyone who fully supports where the LDs are now isn't really a Labour person, they were just being an anti-Tory person.

We run on innocent until proven guilty in this country. The immediate suspension of that when it comes to Labour again should raise a red flag.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, frostypaw said:

And magically the next Labour leader will be left alone and get a completely fair shot, as long as they drop all the policies that led to Labour experiencing a massive surge.

nah, he'll get all the shit thrown at him like all Labour leaders do, but perhaps he'll be able to face it rather than hide away as well as be competent at leadership.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, frostypaw said:

Are you unaware of how many new members Labour got, and how close they came to winning last election?

the tories have sod-all members but the most votes so members means naff all.

And Corbyn came as close as Brown.

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, frostypaw said:

They didn't need to run a particularly effective one - they'd got so many people screaming it was an impossibility, that he was unelectable and that the Tories were going to sweep the board that they got cocky.

That still happened. A long way from the wipeout the doggedly anti-JC lot get.

it was great that it wasn't the wipe out everyone expected - everyone including Jez & co - but it helped having May tell everyone to vote Labour.  

 

 

Quote

The LD switch is over Brexit, more single-issue action. Anyone who fully supports where the LDs are now isn't really a Labour person, they were just being an anti-Tory person.

The high Labour vote was over Brexit, same as the current LD surge.

And are you really claiming that brexit and Jez is the only true Labour path? Really? Really?   

 

Quote

We run on innocent until proven guilty in this country. The immediate suspension of that when it comes to Labour again should raise a red flag.

We also generally accept the guilty plea of the defendant in court. 

When Jez is pleading guilty but the fan club say he's innocent, not all of the problems come from Jez.  

Edited July 25, 2019 by eFestivals

[brettredmayne]

Just seen his cabinet and want to bury my head in the sand.

Raab, patel, Mogg

Worse is  Jo Johnson, had respect for him when he quit and went to peoples vote events. Now he is sitting with hard line brexiters 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

2 hours ago, brettredmayne said:

Just seen his cabinet and want to bury my head in the sand.

Raab, patel, Mogg

Worse is  Jo Johnson, had respect for him when he quit and went to peoples vote events. Now he is sitting with hard line brexiters 

Yep. Not to mention the likes of Gavin Williamson - in a sensible country his previous conduct would’ve left him unable to work in politics ever again, but in this country he’s given one of the biggest jobs in the cabinet mere months after being fired, and barely anybody bats an eyelid.

If ever you needed reminding just how spineless and self-interested even liberal Torys are, just take a look at the likes of Nicky Morgan, Jo Johnson and Amber Rudd suddenly kissing Boris’ arse and signing a pledge saying they would be willing to support leaving without a deal, just for the sake of minor cabinet roles. Cowards the lot of them.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Rose-Colored Boy

[Rose-Colored Boy]

13 hours ago, frostypaw said:

Anyone who fully supports where the LDs are now isn't really a Labour person, they were just being an anti-Tory person.

What? They still have the vote just like anyone else in this country, and nobody has won a majority in this country in decades without appealing to those kind of people.

Anti-Brexit liberals who lent Labour their vote in 2017 have spent the last two years being repeatedly told by the media and various politicians that everyone who voted Labour in 2017 was somehow endorsing Brexit. We won’t be making the same mistake again.

[ghostdancer1]

 

so lets see if Corbyn will actually do something, or sit on his hands, like he always does, being a useless, complicit fuck.

[mcshed]

6 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

 

so lets see if Corbyn will actually do something, or sit on his hands, like he always does, being a useless, complicit fuck.

But Boris will win a no confidence motion now as all the resigning Tories have said they wish him good luck and hope he is serious about getting a deal.  He won't lose a confidence motion until he resorts to aiming for No Deal. So Swinson is points scoring against Labour rather than trying to stop Boris. Fair enough that's where she is picking up voters but its a naked political attack on Corbyn not an attempt to stop Boris.