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Brexit at Glasto?

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17 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

they want a soft, Labour Brext (it's literally there in their manifesto), but are happy to sit on the fence doing fuck all in the hopes of getting a GE.

you can quibble over their fence-sitting, you can't quibble that they want to implement Brexit.

I'm quibbling that they can't be both

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37 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Remain have been ahead in the polls for a long time now. It's not exactly likely that remain would win, but it does seem more likely than not at the moment.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/

image.thumb.png.99fb6b9399a1e8d7522bd300ad30d45b.png

But surely also a lot of people will vote in an election based on things other than a referendum....? I'd hope that skews it more in Labour's favour too, but I don't think they're carbon copies of each other. 

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12 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

But surely also a lot of people will vote in an election based on things other than a referendum....? I'd hope that skews it more in Labour's favour too, but I don't think they're carbon copies of each other. 

I think we may be at cross purposes here (maybe my fault trying to post and work at the same time!)  I wasn't posting that graph to indicate how people would vote in a GE, but a second referendum.

The parliamentary polls are much less stable, but Labour have actually been ahead in those polls for the last couple of months:

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

image.thumb.png.2f09e38f5c5c8fe21670903331bcc95c.png

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1 hour ago, marcoolio said:

26%. But it was a twitter poll, so it probably never really meant anything.

image.thumb.png.074ec391b029b38e9b59cb789faeb9fe.png

Thanks yes that's the one I had seen. Also, saw someone on Twitter who when he challenged his Grandad who was a leave voter about how it could effect unemployment. His Grandad answered well if it gets too bad we'll just do what we did in the 80's and go to Germany!!

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11 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I think we may be at cross purposes here (maybe my fault trying to post and work at the same time!)  I wasn't posting that graph to indicate how people would vote in a GE, but a second referendum.

The parliamentary polls are much less stable, but Labour have actually been ahead in those polls for the last couple of months:

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

image.thumb.png.2f09e38f5c5c8fe21670903331bcc95c.png

Aaaah I see - sorry!!

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19 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I think we may be at cross purposes here (maybe my fault trying to post and work at the same time!)  I wasn't posting that graph to indicate how people would vote in a GE, but a second referendum.

The parliamentary polls are much less stable, but Labour have actually been ahead in those polls for the last couple of months:

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

image.thumb.png.2f09e38f5c5c8fe21670903331bcc95c.png

I believe the confusion came about as voting in a Labour government is virtually a pre-condition of having a referendum. So even if there's a remain majority in the country unless they can get a Labour government it doesn't matter a jot.

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5 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I believe the confusion came about as voting in a Labour government is virtually a pre-condition of having a referendum. So even if there's a remain majority in the country unless they can get a Labour government it doesn't matter a jot.

Ah right, I get it now.  And I think I agree.  We need both, and whilst far too tight for comfort, the polls do indeed point that way, albeit by a whisker.

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Except that i suspect that large part of the reason that Labour are ahead in the polls in the last few months is because of the introduction of the Brexit Party to the mix taking a big chunk of the Tory vote share. A minority labour government would get nothing past a joint Tory and BXP block on the other side of the house. 

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6 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

Except that i suspect that large part of the reason that Labour are ahead in the polls in the last few months is because of the introduction of the Brexit Party to the mix taking a big chunk of the Tory vote share. A minority labour government would get nothing past a joint Tory and BXP block on the other side of the house. 

In that scenario, a minority labour government wouldn't exist in the first place. If those two had enough votes to block legislation, they'd find a way to work together and form a government to start with.

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6 hours ago, gigpusher said:

Thanks yes that's the one I had seen. Also, saw someone on Twitter who when he challenged his Grandad who was a leave voter about how it could effect unemployment. His Grandad answered well if it gets too bad we'll just do what we did in the 80's and go to Germany!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that (technically) illegal at the time?  And, if we leave the EU, won't it most likely become illegal again (as in no automatic right to work in Germany)?

 

Seems the old-boy is correct in that it will be like the 80's again - illegal and difficult then, illegal and harder now.  Nice. 

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No deal isn’t even a thing. It’s almost as badly defined as “leave” was. Most politicians aren’t actually pushing for an actual “no deal” where we just let the deadline expire and do nothing. What they’re suggesting is “no trade deal” which is a very different thing. They are still in favour of coming to an agreement on aviation, recognition of passports, and the other fundamental stuff.

Then there is the question of what we actual do when there is no trade deal. What tariffs are we putting on what? This is what every MP agitating for no deal should be asked. What’s the trade plan? What goods get tariffs? WTO gives us all these freedoms, how will we apply them? Because they will be in effect from day one post no-deal and we need to know.

And of course, once they do that, all those people in industries that will actually get walloped by no deal will quickly change their tune. It’s the same thing again, Brexiteers hiding behind no deal because it’s the only way they’re being allowed to get away with having no plan and no specifics. And they shouldn’t be.

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On 5/25/2019 at 3:49 AM, bamber said:

In an ideal world that would be true, we do not live an ideal world.

It frightens me that those of us who are perfectly capable shun public office because we got high. There are many thousands of us that meet that description.

Green new deal.

It is coincidental that all the drug stuff in the Conservative leader election has come up now.

Let me say this. Boris, (massive 10 Billion tax cut bung to those earning £80,000+ as his only articulated firm policy in the Conservative leader election) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, is in case of fact, a formidable intellectual. 

Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, got two weak A levels from a fee paying grammar school, then dropped out before his first year was complete from a degree course in Trade Union studies at the London Metropolitan University (at the time the Polytechnic of North London) 

Johnson's preoccupations are loaded with all the ancient prejudices and idealisations that define the smarter Tories,

Socialism right now, needs intellects to mach this. With Corbyn we are so way, far wide of the mark to stand up to this it is embarrassing.

 

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He can have all the towering intellect he wants, he's still a c**t.

 

  • Upvote 1

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3 minutes ago, Spindles said:

He can have all the towering intellect he wants, he's still a c**t.

 

A c**t with a towering intellect will always conquer an intellectual inferior even if the intellectual inferior is right sadly.

Edited by bamber

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6 hours ago, bamber said:

Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, got two weak A levels from a fee paying grammar school, then dropped out before his first year was complete 

Small correction he did not go to a fee paying grammar school. The school is free and does not charge fees. If he was a boarder he would have paid for that. 

Still had the attitudes and ethos of a fee paying school but it was not private

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7 minutes ago, tarw said:

Small correction he did not go to a fee paying grammar school. The school is free and does not charge fees. If he was a boarder he would have paid for that. 

Still had the attitudes and ethos of a fee paying school but it was not private

he went to a fee-paying prep school before the grammar

Edited by eFestivals

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Just now, eFestivals said:

he did go to a fee-paying school

He went to Adams Grammar School in Newport Shropshire. My daughter did her A levels there. It has always been free to be a student there but if you are a boarder you pay the boarding fees. It had, and still does to a lesser degree, all the features of a fee paying school. Extremely conservative and entitled. My daughter had loads of “discussions “ with the history teacher who thought that the Empire was the best thing ever!

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6 hours ago, bamber said:

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, is in case of fact, a formidable intellectual. 

He had the best education money can buy and got a 2:1 in classics at undergrad. Surely that doesn't constitute a "formidable intellectual"

I also would dispute that MPs need to be "intellectuals", you would be ruling out the majority of the working class there, many of whom have been amongst our best mps. 

I would dispute that we need intellectuals as mps/leaders to achieve socialism too. The public want to hear about genuine policies that will change their lives for the better not historical materialism or labour theory of value

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15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

he went to a fee-paying prep school before the grammar

Sorry I stand corrected. I thought you were talking about secondary education. 

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20 minutes ago, tarw said:

He went to Adams Grammar School in Newport Shropshire. My daughter did her A levels there. It has always been free to be a student there but if you are a boarder you pay the boarding fees. It had, and still does to a lesser degree, all the features of a fee paying school. Extremely conservative and entitled. My daughter had loads of “discussions “ with the history teacher who thought that the Empire was the best thing ever!

So what you're saying is that it might as well have been fee paying

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24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

So what you're saying is that it might as well have been fee paying

Yes.

I’m not a Corbyn apologist by any stretch. I’m just anal about all criticisms being accurate so they can’t be debunked. 

Not that facts seem to matter these days

Edited by tarw

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6 hours ago, bamber said:

A c**t with a towering intellect will always conquer an intellectual inferior even if the intellectual inferior is right sadly.

That's the opposite of what was in evidence when he sat down a few years back to have that notorious chat with Eddie Mair.

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Johnson, like many has created a bluff persona, so much so he pretty much lives it. He rehearses his lines and when questioned relies on a set pattern of speech: a bit of dismissive bluster, a few come on's, a few archaic words/phrases to catch the interviewer off balance, and a change of subject. He's no genius, the guy is a at best a wit, but rigorous intellect nope.

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