Are we In or Out?

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Thevorpalblade said:

Only China, Israel, and Japan have larger primary schools.

Right. And none of those are freely allowed to migrate here. I mean, if  Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania all join the EU, won't that be great? Because we can all move over there where the class sizes are smaller and get a better education for our kids?

If our classes sizes are bigger than France and Germany, why not move over there right now? You can. Because we're in the EU. If the UK is so shit because of EU immigration, why not emigrate?

You can't have:

• Our country is so shit because there's so many people

But then still go

• Everyone is going to want to move here because our country is so great

Either one on its own is a fair argument against being in the EU, but when you try and do both at once then each invalidates the other.

[BLTN]

17 hours ago, CHRLY said:

What positive policies could be pushed back? 

any "left wing" policies disliked by the "right wing" EU

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

I will vote In. 

The only thing appealing about Out for me would be the hope that it would end our involvement in TTIP. 

[pie_and_a_pint]

I'm no-one on this thread needs reminding but tomorrow is the deadline for registering to vote. Apparently six million eligible people still aren't registered so please spread the word today on your Twitter/BookFace/Tumblr etc. 

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

I will vote In. 

The only thing appealing about Out for me would be the hope that it would end our involvement in TTIP. 

There's nothing inherently bad about trade agreements, tho there can be about the terms of an agreement.

There's been a lot of tin foil hat nonsense talked about TTIP as well as genuine concerns expressed, but at the end of the day the point to start worrying or not is when agreement in principle has been reached and the terms published.

If the terms are only a quarter as bad as many of the worries I've read I'm more than confident enough that other EU member states will block it - tho I'm far from sure the UK would, meaning we'd still be at risk of the same bad terms if we left the EU.

[BLTN]

Even though I'm for voting out I still think it is important that we offer more help to the refuges. I think that we'd be worse off short term in regards to the economy and being 'punished' by the EU and the US for our decision but within a few years it would begin to pick up. Most importantly we would be free from the constraints of an entirely undemocratic control. 

[Waapster]

Vote sent - remain. Same for the other 4 members of my group.

[CHRLY]

39 minutes ago, BLTN said:

any "left wing" policies disliked by the "right wing" EU

That doesn't really answer the question, and seems a bit too speculative to use as a reason for me.

The UK is the EU. We are part of the council that makes decisions to block things. Sure, we've been outvoted sometimes but 90% of the time we get exactly what we want. I doubt a Corbyn-led Britain would be restricted by the EU to the extent you're probably thinking.  

[incident]

3 minutes ago, CHRLY said:

I doubt a Corbyn-led Britain would be restricted by the EU to the extent you're probably thinking.  

I'd argue that Corbyn would be far more likely to be restricted by members of his own party than anything the EU could or would do.

[CHRLY]

Just now, incident said:

I'd argue that Corbyn would be far more likely to be restricted by members of his own party than anything the EU could or would do.

Well yeah, and then there's the issue of him even getting elected in the first place.

My postal vote will be arriving on the 8th I think - I'm voting IN. There's lots of reasons for it, many of them said here or the thread in the Discussions forum, but at the core I can't vote for separatism, and that's the bottom line. 

[fightoffyour]

19 hours ago, Thevorpalblade said:

Apparently Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Albania are the next countries to join. So they aren't included in any figures.

Class sizes will get bigger and more diverse, Yippee.

Means more school building work for my friendly Polish builder.

Longer waiting times at the hospital. Yippee, it'll help relieve the health care burden on their economies.

 

You, sir, are a moron.

Edited June 6, 2016 by fightoffyour

[Duncan Doughnuts]

22 hours ago, Thevorpalblade said:

Class sizes are bigger in the UK than in Australia, France, Germany and the United States.

Only China, Israel, and Japan have larger primary schools.

I say let us let everyone in. The diversity us amazing.

I'm still waiting for an improvement in my score.

 

 

 

I think it's safe to say that you're coming across as a complete dick.

[Duncan Doughnuts]

I've sent off my postal vote with my X firmly in the remain box. I understand and respect that others will vote to leave - and that of course is the beauty of democracy. I feel that the argument for Brexit does not provide conclusive proof that Britain will be better off leaving the EU. For me, a leave vote isn't a calculated risk, but instead, a blind leap of faith. I'm not prepared to take that gamble unless the current situation takes a serious turn for the worse.

[Junglist1981]

21 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You can't have:

• Our country is so shit because there's so many people

But then still go

• Everyone is going to want to move here because our country is so great

 

Love this, look forward to claiming it as my own next time I get into The Debate with someone 

 

[ghostdancer1]

On 5/6/2016 at 8:06 PM, Thevorpalblade said:

Class sizes are bigger in the UK than in Australia, France, Germany and the United States.

Only China, Israel, and Japan have larger primary schools.

I say let us let everyone in. The diversity us amazing.

I'm still waiting for an improvement in my score.

 

so smaller class sizes if the UK is more like France and Germany, yet another reason to remain and strengthen ties with Europe.

 

 

[fightoffyour]

[brettredmayne]

Glastonbury making there views clear 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

 

I prefer Bristol's "how to vote" advice....

 

[brettredmayne]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

I prefer Bristol's "how to vote" advice....

 

Haha I saw someone for the leave campaign kicking off about that 

[wobble]

I'm an outer purely on the basis it's not democratic. You can't vote these people out who are choosing the direction the EU is moving. That alone just seems outrageous to me.
I'm not sure on the exact history of it but how long did it take for normal people of this country to get a vote on who leads us and the opportunity to vote them out too.

I even find it a little weird that so many highly placed people don't seem bothered by this

[eFestivals]

26 minutes ago, wobble said:

I'm an outer purely on the basis it's not democratic.

so you're wanting a 2nd vote, to also vote yourself out of the UK with it's hereditary monarch and it's appointed & hereditary 'lords' plus clerics (just like Iran) in its house of lords?

In comparison, the EU is more democratic than the UK.

28 minutes ago, wobble said:

You can't vote these people out who are choosing the direction the EU is moving.

Yes we can. It's the member govts who define the EU's purpose, and all of those member govts are voted for.

The UK govt gets 97%* of its wants fulfilled by the EU.
(* that's the average of the last 12 years).

And it's democracy and not no-democracy that stops the other 3% being fulfilled.

 

 

[Thevorpalblade]

I want longer waiting times at hospitals.

So count me..... IN

I want lower wages.

So count me.....  IN

I want higher house prices through higher demand.

So count me.....   IN

I want higher council taxes

So count me......  IN

Lets get the bunting out and welcome the forthcoming benefit claimants of Turkey, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro and Albania.

So count me....  IN

[blackdog]

47 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

I prefer Bristol's "how to vote" advice....

 

quality, well done Bristol

[blackdog]

1 minute ago, Thevorpalblade said:

I want longer waiting times at hospitals.

So count me..... IN

I want lower wages.

So count me.....  IN

I want higher house prices through higher demand.

So count me.....   IN

I want higher council taxes

So count me......  IN

Lets get the bunting out and welcome the forthcoming benefit claimants of Turkey, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro and Albania.

So count me....  IN

your talking bollox chief

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

I was on the fence, potentially more in than out, but keeping an open mind and willing to be convinced by well reasoned, well researched arguments from either side.

 

Although I don't agree with the scare mongering from the remain campaign, the brexit campaign, IMO. have failed to come up with a single compelling reason why leaving would be any better for us, hence I'm definitely in.

I think people look at the EU and some of the daft rules that come out of it (like the power of vacuum cleaners for example) and think its controlling etc but with the state of the Labour party at the moment its for all our own good that some of these rules come directly from the EU rather than the Tory party. I also fail to see why leaving a club with mutual benefits would be better for anybody. If you leave your Gym, yes you save the monthly fee, but you don't have access to the facilities anymore. I also don't agree with the immigration argument, yes we may have more control over EU immigration, but it will not stop immigration from elsewhere anyway, in fact it will be easier because France for example will have no inclination to stop people at their border. (FWIW I'm not really interested in the immigration part but for the brexiters who are focusing on that I feel they are missing the point)