Kneecap

[Colorblindjames]

7 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

It's not some straw argument to say "but Hamas, but Hezbollah" - that's who they support. Good guys don't support groups like that. They're literally supporting groups that killed Irish peacekeepers a few years back.

 

In general, I hate that "if you don't like what Kneecap is doing, you must think Israel is good". I just think having someone like Kneecap be front page of the "free Palestine" discourse isn't helping people in Gaza at all. Most people don't support Israel, but they also don't want to be associated with someone like Kneecap or people who defend them. 

It is a straw man argument to say “but Hamas”. The butchered children of Gaza don’t even know who or what Hamas is. “But Hamas” is used to justify and deflect from the actions of Israel.

 

Plus as it is been said elsewhere many times before. You’ve no right from your cosy middle class existence to say how a population should resist their occupation and torture. The British army and government are no different from Hamas IMO. Kneecap are exposing hypocrisy. 

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

15 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

In general, I hate that "if you don't like what Kneecap is doing, you must think Israel is good". I just think having someone like Kneecap be front page of the "free Palestine" discourse isn't helping people in Gaza at all. Most people don't support Israel, but they also don't want to be associated with someone like Kneecap or people who defend them. 

 

That's not Kneecap's choice though, is it?  It's not like they've deliberately set out to make themselves into any sort of figureheads or taken on any mantle of responsibility.  They're just notable due to the pitiful lack of other loud voices in the arts.

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, Nicklord said:

 

 

Yeah, yeah, except they showed support several times to the groups that are killing civilians, including those they're trying to free. Let's not even go into what they did in neighboring countries.

 

I'm sorry, I can't get behind Kneecap being good guys here.

Would you apply the same rationale to people showing support for Israel?

[Colorblindjames]

13 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

That's not Kneecap's choice though, is it?  It's not like they've deliberately set out to make themselves into any sort of figureheads or taken on any mantle of responsibility.  They're just notable due to the pitiful lack of other loud voices in the arts.

Yes if only we had some non threatening boys with nice southern accents fronting the campaign it would be so much more acceptable. 

[Twiggy553]

42 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

that's who they support. Good guys don't support groups like that. They're literally supporting groups that killed Irish peacekeepers a few years back.

They’re not “supporting” anyone. They made some ill conceived actions and have apologised for it.

 

What they have done is drawn attention to the genocide which can only be a good thing.

[MR1012]

Hoping they don't get removed from the lineup.

 

Does anybody think the Shangri-la set might get cancelled but stay on West Holts? 

 

Could see another Bicep situation happening if it goes ahead

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, MR1012 said:

Hoping they don't get removed from the lineup.

 

Does anybody think the Shangri-la set might get cancelled but stay on West Holts? 

 

Could see another Bicep situation happening if it goes ahead

They need moving to Pyramid. Midday Sunday.

[Nicklord]

31 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

It is a straw man argument to say “but Hamas”. The butchered children of Gaza don’t even know who or what Hamas is. “But Hamas” is used to justify and deflect from the actions of Israel.

 

Plus as it is been said elsewhere many times before. You’ve no right from your cosy middle class existence to say how a population should resist their occupation and torture. The British army and government are no different from Hamas IMO. Kneecap are exposing hypocrisy. 

 

Most people don't use "but Hamas" to justify the actions of Israel. Most people actually don't support Israel. You can check opinion polls from all around the world.

 

14 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

Would you apply the same rationale to people showing support for Israel?

For showing direct support for IDF - yes. For showing support for the Israeli people - no.

 

Someone like Nick Cave, who still wants to play shows in Israel, is okay with me. Someone like that singer from Disturbed who was signing IDF bombs, absolutely f**king not. 

[TheDayman]

I can’t see Shangri-la happening now, it would be carnage.

 

Sure Basement Jaxx shut down the area for over an hour, I can only imagine what this would do.

[TheDayman]

1 minute ago, Nicklord said:

Most people don't use "but Hamas" to justify the actions of Israel. Most people actually don't support Israel. You can check opinion polls from all around the world.

 

For showing direct support for IDF - yes. For showing support for the Israeli people - no.

 

Someone like Nick Cave, who still wants to play shows in Israel, is okay with me. Someone like that singer from Disturbed who was signing IDF bombs, absolutely f**king not. 

I was referring to Israel as a state, I think it’s important to differentiate them from the people.

 

However, in saying that, we often see the opposite happening for the people of Gaza, usually being lumped in together with Hamas.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Keep forgetting about the Shangri-La set.

 

I think that will have to be axed.

[Twiggy553]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They need moving to Pyramid. Midday Sunday.

agree. Ballsy political statement though

[Colorblindjames]

8 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

Most people don't use "but Hamas" to justify the actions of Israel. Most people actually don't support Israel. You can check opinion polls from all around the world.

 

For showing direct support for IDF - yes. For showing support for the Israeli people - no.

 

Someone like Nick Cave, who still wants to play shows in Israel, is okay with me. Someone like that singer from Disturbed who was signing IDF bombs, absolutely f**king not. 

Oh most media organisations absolutely do expect people to condemn the actions of Oct7 before being allowed to make their point. Thus giving justification for the Israeli actions. 
 

And no Nick Cave is entirely wrong. Israel is an apartheid state. I’m assuming then you’d have supported artists playing sun city during the S.African apartheid. 
 

A member of the IDF was part of Eurovision. BBC happily broadcast it. So enough of this faux outrage about a flag that I believe was thrown on stage by an audience member. 

[wro_lap]

I have this continuously growing fear that my piss break between Bob Vylan and Kneecap will see me unable to get back into the field

[Fishman]

13 minutes ago, wro_lap said:

I have this continuously growing fear that my piss break between Bob Vylan and Kneecap will see me unable to get back into the field

Just pop into T&C - no problem with access that way.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

27 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I was referring to Israel as a state, I think it’s important to differentiate them from the people.

 

However, in saying that, we often see the opposite happening for the people of Gaza, usually being lumped in together with Hamas.

 

I asked someone a question in this thread about Palestinians and they responded about "terrorists".  When I pointed out the prejudice of the poster I got modded.

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 minutes ago, Fishman said:

Just pop into T&C - no problem with access that way.

 

That can still fill up quickly.  Friends got caught doing that before TLC.

[clasher]

28 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

However, in saying that, we often see the opposite happening for the people of Gaza, usually being lumped in together with Hamas.

 

Exactly. People of Gaza have themselves to blame for electing Hamas (even though half of the population is younger than 18), whereas with Israel it's "not all Israelis support Netanyhu, you know" (which of course is true). Even though they have elected him several times. Double standards that fit the Israeli narrative.

22 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Oh most media organisations absolutely do expect people to condemn the actions of Oct7 before being allowed to make their point. Thus giving justification for the Israeli actions. 

 

Another clear example of Israeli propaganda. As if the conflict started on Oct 7th and before that there was sunshine and rainbows and pink unicorns and people living together in harmony.

 

On the point of Kneecap, they absolutely should be allowed to play the festival. I hope for good crowd management in case they do though, cause things could get nasty really quickly.

[Nicklord]

34 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I was referring to Israel as a state, I think it’s important to differentiate them from the people.

 

However, in saying that, we often see the opposite happening for the people of Gaza, usually being lumped in together with Hamas.

Yes, that happens a lot, and it is a problem. That was one of my points, and why I dislike Kneecap being championed as some good guys. They're not really helping to fix that narrative at all. If anything, they're doing the opposite.

[kaosmark2]

25 minutes ago, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

I asked someone a question in this thread about Palestinians and they responded about "terrorists".  When I pointed out the prejudice of the poster I got modded.

Unless a mod DM'd you to say you were acting out of order then you personally weren't "modded". We hid posts that were sparking personal arguments even if they were only quoting something inflammatory. Pages of posts were arriving very rapidly and quickly hiding things was the only way we could realistically keep the thread open at all.

 

We were trying to keep vaguely regular statements out in the thread so that people would understand what we were aiming for while allowing the conversation to continue. 

 

I don't remember your name coming up as someone whose content we were worried about. Feel free to DM me or another mod of your choice if you want to discuss it further now, but please respect that trying to offer explanations to everyone who had even a single post hidden would have been impossible, and we'd have had to close the thread instead.

[TheDayman]

49 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

Yes, that happens a lot, and it is a problem. That was one of my points, and why I dislike Kneecap being championed as some good guys. They're not really helping to fix that narrative at all. If anything, they're doing the opposite.

It is a problem, and honestly, I’m growing increasingly frustrated with the double standards applied depending on who we’re talking about.
 

Take Hezbollah, for example - the UK only designated the entire organisation as a terrorist group in 2019.
 

And while I don’t disagree with that designation, for me it raises a serious question: what would it take for similar standards to be applied to the IDF - or even to Israel itself - when engaging in actions that many see as not just terrorism but ethnic cleansing, come genocide?
 

We clearly don’t treat them the same, and that inconsistency undermines the "morals" we claim to uphold as a society.
 

And if, however unlikely, Israel were designated a terrorist state, would the public and political response be the same? Would those flying the Israeli flag be treated like Kneecap, or prosecuted under the same logic? I highly doubt it.

Edited May 22, 2025 by TheDayman

[churlie100]

 

https://dice.fm/partner/100-club/event/k6vrqq-kneecap-22nd-may-the-100-club-london-tickets

Edited May 22, 2025 by churlie100

[steviewevie]

Might take my Israeli flag to test public opinion even though they aren't proscribed a terrorist state.

(yet)

[TheDayman]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Might take my Israeli flag to test public opinion even though they aren't proscribed a terrorist state.

(yet)

If you're just trying to be provocative, you’ll probably get the reaction you're looking for. But if you’re actually interested in a fair and consistent conversation about state violence and accountability, I would imagine most people would welcome that

[Ayrshire Chris]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Might take my Israeli flag to test public opinion even though they aren't proscribed a terrorist state.

(yet)

Yet being the operative word

why not also take your MAGA hat and your I ❤️Farage flag to really test public opinion😉😊