news & politics:discussion

[Ayrshire Chris]

23 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The idea is that the nukes stop US getting fired at at all. Think of it as a national insurance policy.

 

The NHS is great, but it only really benefits sick people. EVERYONE benefits from trident. 

As I am living  a few miles across the Clyde  from the faslane nuclear sub base I feel I benefit more than most from trident😁😉.  Pity the Americans  left their  Holy Loch base years ago. That was even more nuke subs! And they had a shop that, if you knew a friendly sailor, you could get really cheap Jack Daniels and American fags . 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Glastonbury's CND messaging is doing an amazing job on its core audience.

[Mr.Tease]

 

Don’t mean to single out the centrists on this one, but those photos are exactly how my sister looks on the days she’s meant to repay the money she owes me😂

[steviewevie]

30 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

 

Don’t mean to single out the centrists on this one, but those photos are exactly how my sister looks on the days she’s meant to repay the money she owes me😂

they're not illegal yet...bill could be amended...but a bit more unlikely now.

[Ayrshire Chris]

50 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Glastonbury's CND messaging is doing an amazing job on its core audience.

Very true, at least where I am we are sure that any attack will be quick and painless, instant vaporisation for us. ! 

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

 

 

[mattiloy]

Having a suit and a haircut is not competence, it isn’t leadership.

Starmer is incompetent. Starmer is not a leader.

[mattiloy]

19 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The problem with Starmer is I don't know who he appeals too.  I can't see Corbyn's left loonies liking him...  and Red Tories like me can see right through him...

What can you see right through? As far as I can tell he is blue labour- he’s even brought in Mandelson as a policy advisor

[grumpyhack]

At least Mandelson helped win elections.

[mattiloy]

1 minute ago, grumpyhack said:

At least Mandelson helped win elections.

The Blair generation have dominated politics for 30 years now. The world has moved on, they haven’t. Time to stop living in the past and get out of the way.

[eFestivals]

43 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Having a suit and a haircut is not competence, it isn’t leadership.

Starmer is incompetent. Starmer is not a leader.

Dcdo tell us how Corbyn was a leader then.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The Blair generation have dominated politics for 30 years now. The world has moved on, they haven’t. Time to stop living in the past and get out of the way.

 

The types who write stuff like that are the ones who can't move on.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

He stands for nothing!

People like me (and much of the country) jumped on the Blair party bus - and for repeat election wins - Brown then lost and the rest is a Tory history.

If Labour want to win they need to move to a position Blair occupied where he can get middle England behind him.  But what is his vision that wins over middle England ? Does he have one ?  It don't think so.  

Blair occupied a positive view of the country. What Starmer is trying to stand for.

[squirrelarmy]

Corbynism is dead. It’s time people moved on from that. I was never a fan of him but I still voted Labour in the last election as it was the best strategy of removing the Tories from my local seat. 
 

Even if you don’t support Starmer, not backing Labour in the areas where they are the strongest opposition to the Tories will just mean the Tories keep those seats and the power.
 

Refusing to vote for Labour because Starmer isn’t Corbyn is a foolish strategy. 

[steviewevie]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Blair occupied a positive view of the country. What Starmer is trying to stand for.

he might be trying to...but he hasn't got that x-factor that Blair had...and this country is not the same place as it was in the mid 90s...

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Corbynism is dead. It’s time people moved on from that. I was never a fan of him but I still voted Labour in the last election as it was the best strategy of removing the Tories from my local seat. 
 

Even if you don’t support Starmer, not backing Labour in the areas where they are the strongest opposition to the Tories will just mean the Tories keep those seats and the power.
 

Refusing to vote for Labour because Starmer isn’t Corbyn is a foolish strategy. 

yeah, it's stupid. The left always do this though, and it's why the tories just keep winning.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Blair occupied a positive view of the country. What Starmer is trying to stand for.

Did you ever see that really good speech Brown where he passionately listed everything they accomplished in government?

[fred quimby]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

The Blair generation have dominated politics for 30 years now. The world has moved on, they haven’t. Time to stop living in the past and get out of the way.

Could you not say this about Corbyn as well though. The 80's and Michael Foot were even longer ago and a very different time. 

[Haan]

25 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, it's stupid. The left always do this though, and it's why the tories just keep winning.

When Corbyn was in charge and people voiced their concerns and complained and said they were no longer going to vote labour, its was the lefts fault. 

Now Starmer is in charge and people are voicing in their concerns and some are saying they are no longer going to vote labour, and its still the lefts fault.

I'm like 90% certain I will vote Labour btw, and I do think Starmer is being a bit shit right now but I also know that things can change very quickly in politics so there is still a lot of hope. I think a lot of Corbyn supporters recognise his shortcomings as leader (didn't like 70% of Lab members who voted for him vote for Starmer?) but Starmer has done very little to extend the olive branch to the left. Like I said tho, there is still a lot of time and circumstances rn (covid) are very unique. 

 

[grumpyhack]

Blair identified that for Labour to take power they had to take Middle England with them and offer them some sort of hope.  That's exactly what Boris also twigged was the recipe for electoral victory.  The majority of people when thinking about voting ask: "What's in it for me?"  The promise of sackcloth and ashes doesn't appeal to many.

At the moment people want to see an end to Covid and some sort of return to 'normality'  like being able to meet up with friends and family and, possibly for the community on here, the chance to go and enjoy some music.

The UK has done well so far with the vaccince roll out but even the reason for that success is debateable.  Is it the wonderful NHS or is it that the EU didn't get its act together as well as the UK.  And who will claim the credit for it all?

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Haan said:

When Corbyn was in charge and people voiced their concerns and complained and said they were no longer going to vote labour, its was the lefts fault. 

Now Starmer is in charge and people are voicing in their concerns and some are saying they are no longer going to vote labour, and its still the lefts fault.

I'm like 90% certain I will vote Labour btw, and I do think Starmer is being a bit shit right now but I also know that things can change very quickly in politics so there is still a lot of hope. I think a lot of Corbyn supporters recognise his shortcomings as leader (didn't like 70% of Lab members who voted for him vote for Starmer?) but Starmer has done very little to extend the olive branch to the left. Like I said tho, there is still a lot of time and circumstances rn (covid) are very unique. 

 

I don't mean the left of labour, I mean the general left, from centre leftwards...social democrats, centrists, socialists, whatever....They are always fighting each other whilst the tories march on.

I agree that people didn't get behind Corbyn as much as they should have...wouldn't vote labour because of Corbyn etc...and now we're getting the same, people won't vote labour because of Starmer. It's frustrating.

I was impressed with Corbyn first of all, felt pretty good to have someone with actual principles in charge...but in the end I think he was a weak opposition leader and to be honest I think he was sick of it all himself. I would have liked to see McDonnell have a go.

I am not overly impressed with Starmer either, and I think he made a mistake kicking Corbyn out but was trying to look like he was being tough on antisemitism (please, let's not get into that!).

But, with the electoral system we have (and where I live) I will vote labour...a vote for anyone else just help the tories (unless live in a lib dem- tory marginal I guess...or live in Scotland or Wales and want independence etc etc).

[eFestivals]

Why should people have got behind corbyn.its for him to be attractive enough to get supported

[eFestivals]

Put up s flawed option get a flawed response. Why should people have got behind corbyn.its for him to be attractive enough to get supported

[eFestivals]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I dont think its all that different really...

People care about the economy, crime, defence and education.  Same shit every election in modern history.

Brexit was a bit of curve ball but its largely a non issue going into future elections.

Brexit is enough of a thing that people won't want to go round the loop again.its over.