When will this shit end?

[efcfanwirral]

19 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I wouldn’t say its inconceivable that R&L goes ahead still, it’s four months away, we’ve not been in lockdown for four weeks yet. A lot of water under the bridge between now and then and it’s not exactly one that takes a while to set up.

Got to be down to testing capability though surely? It'd only take a few people with it in the wrong places (bars, food, wristbanding) to make it spread, then those thousands take it home with them and we're back where we started.

I feel that for gigs to happen we either need some scientific wizardry giving us the means or for the public to embrace herd immunity fully, with the deaths that will bring  

Edited April 16, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[sisco]

Don’t know if anyone else has mentioned it but that Together at Home global event is being shown on BBC1 on Saturday night (2 hour highlight programme)

[Old_Johno]

3 hours ago, Bisque said:

That’s the other fest I’ve been curious about too.  I’ve was invited to go this year with a regular attendee who has an early bird ticket, I couldn’t last year as I went to Sziget (same week/weekend), I heard the weather was pony so wasn’t fussed.

No chance of any UK camping weekend fest being moved back to later in the year due to the weather.

edit: I hadn’t considered workers & employees, good point.

edit 2: just noticed Sziget has cut prices across all types of entry tickets. I think that’s a bit naughty enticing people to buy tickets to an event that likely won’t happen.

What is R&L doing?

R&L are still going ahead at the moment, and Shambala the same weekend. They are 4 months away, but if we go down the Germany route then that’s no events over 1000 people until September. The problem is we still don’t know enough about infection rates and immunity to let these events happen. Germany are also batch screening, not testing individuals so thats

a lot quicker 

[efcfanwirral]

The more I think about it the more I think we need to go down the authoritarian route for this once we get the numbers down enough., mass testing and anyone who tests positive has to go to a quarantine centre with armed guards (something I was against before but if it's a hotel not a big room then that could work), and mandatory mask wearing. Also china style app that tracks movement and alerts people who have tested positive. 

That's how we get past this, forget western freedom nonsense, just get it done ffs. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The more I think about it the more I think we need to go down the authoritarian route for this once we get the numbers down enough., mass testing and anyone who tests positive has to go to a quarantine centre with armed guards (something I was against before but if it's a hotel not a big room then that could work), and mandatory mask wearing. Also china style app that tracks movement and alerts people who have tested positive. 

That's how we get past this, forget western freedom nonsense, just get it done ffs. 

Isn’t the issue though with the asymptomatic spread ? The public uptake seems better than predicted at the moment surely people with symptoms it’s the same ... ? 

[reflekting]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The more I think about it the more I think we need to go down the authoritarian route for this once we get the numbers down enough., mass testing and anyone who tests positive has to go to a quarantine centre with armed guards (something I was against before but if it's a hotel not a big room then that could work), and mandatory mask wearing. Also china style app that tracks movement and alerts people who have tested positive. 

That's how we get past this, forget western freedom nonsense, just get it done ffs. 

I can't abide by this view at all. We need to treat people responsibly, the majority will respond accordingly, but anything authoritarian sets a dangerous precedent for the future, by all means act where people break the law but armed guards is very excessive. I appreciate the pandemic is horrific for those lives that are lost, but we don't throw the whole construct of society down the pan. 

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Isn’t the issue though with the asymptomatic spread ? The public uptake seems better than predicted at the moment surely people with symptoms it’s the same ... ? 

That should in general get taken care of by the masks bit, the idea being that they don't stop you getting it, but stop you spreading it to others (so has the effect of both). Obviously not 100% but stops you coughing it on surfaces etc, so surely helps a fair amount.

4 minutes ago, reflekting said:

I can't abide by this view at all. We need to treat people responsibly, the majority will respond accordingly, but anything authoritarian sets a dangerous precedent for the future, by all means act where people break the law but armed guards is very excessive. I appreciate the pandemic is horrific for those lives that are lost, but we don't throw the whole construct of society down the pan. 

I mean that very soon there is a need to get the economy running quickly and that will happen soon regardless of how we actually do it  (I'd personally always value lives over economy but it's a Tory government, there is a limit to that, which is based on public opinion), I just feel that the authoritarian way allows that to happen as it will anyway, but with less lives lost. 

Society to me is a bit of an illusion so I don't see this as a big leap - whatever the Tories/donors/bankers etc want to happen will happen eventually thanks to the media manipulating opinion - like Brexit, privatisation of the nhs etc. 

At least dealing with the virus properly actually helps us. All I see with our half arsed libertarian nonsense measures are multiple additional peaks of deaths and mass unemployment as we go in and out of lockdown. 

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

That should in general get taken care of by the masks bit, the idea being that they don't stop you getting it, but stop you spreading it to others (so has the effect of both). Obviously not 100% but stops you coughing it on surfaces etc, so surely helps a fair amount.

I mean that very soon there is a need to get the economy running quickly and that will happen soon regardless of how we actually do it  (I'd personally always value lives over economy but it's a Tory government, there is a limit to that, which is based on public opinion), I just feel that the authoritarian way allows that to happen as it will anyway, but with less lives lost. 

Society to me is a bit of an illusion so I don't see this as a big leap - whatever the Tories/donors/bankers etc want to happen will happen eventually thanks to the media manipulating opinion - like Brexit, privatisation of the nhs etc. 

At least dealing with the virus properly actually helps us. All I see with our half arsed libertarian nonsense measures are multiple additional peaks of deaths and mass unemployment as we go in and out of lockdown. 

Ermmmmm..... it seems once the govt actually did lockdown, people listened. It's the govt fault for not doing lockdown quickly enough if you want to blame anyone. Objectively, people are obeying the lockdown laws 

 

If I get symptoms, I'll self isolate. I (and millions more) wont agree to be locked down in a quarantine camp.

Edited April 16, 2020 by zahidf

[stuartbert two hats]

31 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Isn’t the issue though with the asymptomatic spread ? The public uptake seems better than predicted at the moment surely people with symptoms it’s the same ... ? 

That's it, you don't need armed guards to get the R0 below one, you need much better testing.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's it, you don't need armed guards to get the R0 below one, you need much better testing.

Yep I’m more likely to be honest and lockdown myself should I get it than I would admit it to some authoritarian lockdown situation where I’m in a hotel or situation with other covid patients that would just be hell on earth 

[gizmoman]

40 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The more I think about it the more I think we need to go down the authoritarian route for this once we get the numbers down enough., mass testing and anyone who tests positive has to go to a quarantine centre with armed guards (something I was against before but if it's a hotel not a big room then that could work), and mandatory mask wearing. Also china style app that tracks movement and alerts people who have tested positive. 

That's how we get past this, forget western freedom nonsense, just get it done ffs. 

Well let's hope you're one of the first for this treatment since you're so keen. It's incredible to me how some people on here are willing to give up their basic human rights because they want a quick solution to this, (and there isn't one anyway). If you weren't a regular poster i'd just think this was trolling but the frightening thing is you are serious.

[efcfanwirral]

11 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Well let's hope you're one of the first for this treatment since you're so keen. It's incredible to me how some people on here are willing to give up their basic human rights because they want a quick solution to this, (and there isn't one anyway). If you weren't a regular poster i'd just think this was trolling but the frightening thing is you are serious.

I think the armed guards bit has overshadowed the rest of what I was saying - I personally would do lockdown for as long as it takes, I don't care myself, but there is no chance the economy nor those laid off or with no savings can deal with this, so something is going to be done whether we want it to be or not. I'd just rather it was done right, not the way we all know it'll go down where we relax it, fuck up the attempts at contact tracing and be right back where we are now. 

Maybe take the armed guards bit away (and I did say hotels) but there is going to be clamour for a quick solution, people have no patience, so there has to be a proper way to do this.

Even an extremely strict jail time for breaking quarantine maybe (probably unenforceable in a country like ours) but at the moment, it's all suggestions so when it gets lifted under public pressure it just won't be done right. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Ozanne]

Geez. Yep lets blame the public and get the army involved, that will solve this.

 

See what happens when governments push away civil liberties just for a moment, you now have people wanting a police state.

[Andy0808 v5]

56 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The more I think about it the more I think we need to go down the authoritarian route for this once we get the numbers down enough., mass testing and anyone who tests positive has to go to a quarantine centre with armed guards (something I was against before but if it's a hotel not a big room then that could work), and mandatory mask wearing. Also china style app that tracks movement and alerts people who have tested positive. 

That's how we get past this, forget western freedom nonsense, just get it done ffs. 

Will the armed guards be wearing Hugo boss coats with red arm bands?

 

It’s not a dealbreaker, but might assist me in deciding where you were going with this. 

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Geez. Yep lets blame the public and get the army involved, that will solve this.

 

See what happens when governments push away civil liberties just for a moment, you now have people wanting a police state.

Not blaming people, I'm looking at solutions afterwards when people have to go back to work, which surely will be soonish (Sunak said as much the other day, that the government can't support people forever). But without something major being done, or a medical breakthrough of course, surely the only outcome of that will be back to square one and mass infections? 

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I think the armed guards bit has overshadowed the rest of what I was saying - I personally would do lockdown for as long as it takes, I don't care myself, but there is no chance the economy nor those laid off or with no savings can deal with this, so something is going to be done whether we want it to be or not. I'd just rather it was done right, not the way we all know it'll go down where we relax it, fuck up the attempts at contact tracing and be right back where we are now. 

Maybe take the armed guards bit away (and I did say hotels) but there is going to be clamour for a quick solution, people have no patience, so there has to be a proper way to do this.

Even an extremely strict jail time for breaking quarantine maybe (probably unenforceable in a country like ours) but at the moment, it's all suggestions so when it gets lifted under public pressure it just won't be done right. 

I don't think you're taking into account what has actually happened over the last few weeks, the vast majority of the public have complied with the suggestions and it seems to be working, there will always be a minority that don't do the right thing but the government models have taken that into account, even if lockdown was ended today the spread of the virus would be far slower than before because people would continue to social distance, there is still a lot of fear of the disease so not everyone would go out even if they could. It's true that people will start to get fed up in another week or two but hopefully by then we will have turned the corner and restrictions can start to be lifted.

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Not blaming people, I'm looking at solutions afterwards when people have to go back to work, which surely will be soonish (Sunak said as much the other day, that the government can't support people forever). But without something major being done, or a medical breakthrough of course, surely the only outcome of that will be back to square one and mass infections? 

It'll probably be a mixture of some of the aspects of your post. They are already developing the NHS app that will be able to trace people with symptoms, testing will be ramped up and more screenings for people in high risk categories. Armed guards will freak people out and will never happen; nor will it be needed.

[Ayrshire Chris]

33 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Well let's hope you're one of the first for this treatment since you're so keen. It's incredible to me how some people on here are willing to give up their basic human rights because they want a quick solution to this, (and there isn't one anyway). If you weren't a regular poster i'd just think this was trolling but the frightening thing is you are serious.

Don’t think I’d look good wearing an orange boiler suit and cable ties round my wrists😉

[efcfanwirral]

8 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I don't think you're taking into account what has actually happened over the last few weeks, the vast majority of the public have complied with the suggestions and it seems to be working, there will always be a minority that don't do the right thing but the government models have taken that into account, even if lockdown was ended today the spread of the virus would be far slower than before because people would continue to social distance, there is still a lot of fear of the disease so not everyone would go out even if they could. It's true that people will start to get fed up in another week or two but hopefully by then we will have turned the corner and restrictions can start to be lifted.

Definitely agree with the bit about people being scared and was discussing this with my mum earlier - we're in that situation where we wouldn't change anything.

Problem I'm seeing is that pretty much fucks the economy up even more - shops/coffee shops (?) etc reopen with no customers because we're all too scared to go out, and go under. 

If masks were available (and if they definitely help, seems like it from SK etc where it's more culturally ingrained) that could bridge the gap. 

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It'll probably be a mixture of some of the aspects of your post. They are already developing the NHS app that will be able to trace people with symptoms, testing will be ramped up and more screenings for people in high risk categories. Armed guards will freak people out and will never happen; nor will it be needed.

Really shouldn't have said armed guards as its derailed my entire argument 😂. I do think we need to be harsher on making sure people stick to quarantine though, especially if they've flown in. 

That app would help a lot! 

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Really shouldn't have said armed guards as its derailed my entire argument 😂. I do think we need to be harsher on making sure people stick to quarantine though, especially if they've flown in. 

That app would help a lot! 

Ha Yeah that probably put a lot of people off, seemed like an odd idea to post in a forum about Glastonbury festival 😂

 

One the frustrating aspects for me is that the government are treating us like morons. Their whole logic of 'if we tell them our plan for ending lockdown, no one will abide by our lockdown rules'. I'm not stupid, I have a brain and can realise the current measures now are needed and STILL have listen to their plan for the future.

 

It's the carrot and the stick isn't it, the basic approach for trying to persuade people. 'Everyones been so good, you've abided by our rules (that we didn't think you'd actually stick to because you are all so thick) however the grown up's won't thank you for that by including you in the discussion for how we move on'. It's such poor leadership it's untrue.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

I think the armed guards bit has overshadowed the rest of what I was saying - I personally would do lockdown for as long as it takes, I don't care myself, but there is no chance the economy nor those laid off or with no savings can deal with this, so something is going to be done whether we want it to be or not. I'd just rather it was done right, not the way we all know it'll go down where we relax it, fuck up the attempts at contact tracing and be right back where we are now. 

Maybe take the armed guards bit away (and I did say hotels) but there is going to be clamour for a quick solution, people have no patience, so there has to be a proper way to do this.

Even an extremely strict jail time for breaking quarantine maybe (probably unenforceable in a country like ours) but at the moment, it's all suggestions so when it gets lifted under public pressure it just won't be done right. 

Too bloody right the armed guards overshadowed the rest of what you said!

Edited April 16, 2020 by stuartbert two hats
Got rid of unnecessarily arsey emoticons

[dotdash79]

I will only accept armed guards to keep me in the festival site, and to keep the party going. 

[zahidf]

 

[zahidf]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Ha Yeah that probably put a lot of people off, seemed like an odd idea to post in a forum about Glastonbury festival 😂

 

One the frustrating aspects for me is that the government are treating us like morons. Their whole logic of 'if we tell them our plan for ending lockdown, no one will abide by our lockdown rules'. I'm not stupid, I have a brain and can realise the current measures now are needed and STILL have listen to their plan for the future.

 

It's the carrot and the stick isn't it, the basic approach for trying to persuade people. 'Everyones been so good, you've abided by our rules (that we didn't think you'd actually stick to because you are all so thick) however the grown up's won't thank you for that by including you in the discussion for how we move on'. It's such poor leadership it's untrue.

Its more to push the message about staying at home to save lives.

Its the trick they did with taking back control and get Brexit done. It does work, so I can kind of see their tactics in just focusing on that at the moment.

Edited April 16, 2020 by zahidf

[Ozanne]

5 hours ago, zahidf said:

Its more to push the message about staying at home to save lives.

Its the trick they did with taking back control and get Brexit done. It does work, so I can kind of see their tactics in just focusing on that at the moment.

By doing so though they are treating everyone like morons. I and plenty of others can still carry out the stay at home message whilst also listen to their plan for ending the lockdown.

 

It only ‘works’ at the moment because people understand it’s the only way, they haven’t even tried to discuss how it ends with us.

 

If they did start to discuss it and people then begun to flout the stay at home order then here’s a novel idea - do something to those people!