When will this shit end?

[Zoo Music Girl]

I agree with Sadiq about more support needed for people to isolate, but I don't know if that's going to help with this situation specifically. Cases are starting to plateau in London from the last figures I saw, so these hospitalistions are all coming from the peak two weeks back and beyond. It does seem a bit like extra measures now are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Not that they are not still worth doing, but I don't think we can do anything now about the hospitalisations that are still to come in next week or so 😞

 

[Leyrulion]

25 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I think the big one is getting people out of their workplaces.

Don't leave it to employers to decide. Needs more money for furlough.

Short term pain for long term gain...

Other stuff could be

Close non essential construction for 3 weeks. Unless you're building hospitals or doing essential repairs on houses like fixing a boiler.

Stop house viewings and valuations, stick to online only.

Clamp down on essential/non essential shops. The Ye Olde sweet shop near me is still open and I'd probably class WHSmiths type places in that as well. 

 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Leyrulion said:

Other stuff could be

Close non essential construction for 3 weeks. Unless you're building hospitals or doing essential repairs on houses like fixing a boiler.

Stop house viewings and valuations, stick to online only.

Clamp down on essential/non essential shops. The Ye Olde sweet shop near me is still open and I'd probably class WHSmiths type places in that as well. 

 

All good suggestions. 

With the original source being Khan, his ideas won't be implemented now for political reasons.

To get what he wanted Khan should really have said 'open everything up'.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

9 minutes ago, Chef said:

 

Short thread on what the Mayor is asking for, nothing seems unreasonable. I don't know a lot about this but isn't it effectively just a trigger to formally ask for more help from central government in bad circumstances? 

Major incidents are serious of course they are, but they are declared more often than you are perhaps aware - it's not always about a threat to life either. 

It removes a lot of barriers to multi agency working and can trigger business continuity measures for multiple agencies. It can remove a lot of red tape. 

I get the feeling the Mayor of London might be using this as a means to get measures put in place in London over and above the national restrictions. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[Crazyfool01]

he looks absolutely knackered ...  so sorry for Londoners right now 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Major incidents are serious of course they are, but they are declared more often than you are perhaps aware - it's not always about a threat to life either. 

It removes a lot of barriers to multi agency working and can trigger business continuity measures for multiple agencies. It can remove a lot of red tape. 

I get the feeling the Mayor of London might be using this as a means to get measures out in place in London over and above the national restrictions. 

 

Yes, there has already been a major incident declared in Essex over Covid recently I think. And I'm sure somewhere else earlier in the pandemic - Manchester?

[xxialac]

Busting that lie (other lines are from previous 5 years)

 

[Chef]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Major incidents are serious of course they are, but they are declared more often than you are perhaps aware - it's not always about a threat to life either. 

It removes a lot of barriers to multi agency working and can trigger business continuity measures for multiple agencies. It can remove a lot of red tape. 

I get the feeling the Mayor of London might be using this as a means to get measures out in place in London over and above the national restrictions. 

 

That's what I kind of thought - I do a bit of work in Infrastructure and these sorts of mechanisms can be used there to effectively absolve an operating body of certain obligations, plans or requirements for a period of time if required, as you say, to focus efforts and resources elsewhere to solve a very specific problem.

I wasn't quite sure if that's what this could be or something more sinister - especially after the last times this was used was Grenfell and Westminster Bridge terror attacks. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yes, there has already been a major incident declared in Essex over Covid recently I think. And I'm sure somewhere else earlier in the pandemic - Manchester?

There was a major incident declared in lockdown one, it enabled my current employer to redeploy staff without the usual red tape. It also enabled me to free share data with partner organisations / work collaboratively for / with the CCG for a while. 

Equally we had to declare a major incident a few years ago when some crazy hackers ddos'd our website as it stopped citizens interacting with the council - all in the name of freeing Assange.

 

[xxialac]

I greatly fear we are about to read of people being treated in makeshift corridor wards (and worse) and people dying purely because the nurses were too stretched to be able to look after them all.

So, so maddening. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by xxialac

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, xxialac said:

I greatly fear we are about to read of people being treated in makeshift corridors wards (and worse) and people dying purely because the nurses were too stretched to be able to look after them all.

So, so maddening. 

Yes this is my worry too. 

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and people doing their jobs where the task and at speed is familiar to many.

they don't normally vaccinate 2million a week do they?

[efcfanwirral]

If masks outdoors is the most pressing measure they can think of right now, we're fucked. Surely the reason for hospitals being overwhelmed isn't outdoor spread? At least not to the extent that makes it one of the main two changes they want to make? 

If that IS the case then maybe we need to just stop people going outdoors at all. We're ignoring the people who are just flouting the rules by going to each others houses, schools full of non-essential workers kids and people working in offices who don't need to, so it would deal with both issues

Edited January 8, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Paul ™]

Just now, xxialac said:

Busting that lie (other lines are from previous 5 years)

 

Where is that from? Needs a link or at least a source of the data, trying to explain to deniers from just an image is difficult

 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

If masks outdoors is the most pressing measure they can think of right now, we're fucked. Surely the reason for hospitals being overwhelmed isn't outdoor spread? At least not to the extent that makes it one of the main two changes they want to make? 

If that IS the case then maybe we need to just stop people going outdoors at all. We're ignoring the people who are just flouting the rules by going to each others houses, schools full of non-essential workers kids and people working in offices who don't need to, so it would deal with both issues

Not saying this is the case but maybe these aren't the two changes Khan wants to make but the two he thinks he can realistically get signed off.

And masks outdoors may work for other reasons. For example if you mandate them outside, people see them much more which may lead to more indoor maskwearing as humans are hardwired to socially imitate each other.

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Where is that from? Needs a link or at least a source of the data, trying to explain to deniers from just an image is difficult

 

Financial Times statistician - is respected...

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

If masks outdoors is the most pressing measure they can think of right now, we're fucked. Surely the reason for hospitals being overwhelmed isn't outdoor spread? At least not to the extent that makes it one of the main two changes they want to make? 

If that IS the case then maybe we need to just stop people going outdoors at all. We're ignoring the people who are just flouting the rules by going to each others houses, schools full of non-essential workers kids and people working in offices who don't need to, so it would deal with both issues

If you wanted a more strict lockdown you could ban all outdoor exercise for 4 weeks, stop households mixing one on one, tell people to work from home etc. I know it’s tough measures but if things are bad maybe they are needed. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

If you wanted a more strict lockdown you could ban all outdoor exercise for 4 weeks, stop households mixing one on one, tell people to work from home etc. I know it’s tough measures but if things are bad maybe they are needed. 

sadly I think it needs to happen now , just looking at the traffic out and about .... 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Where is that from? Needs a link or at least a source of the data, trying to explain to deniers from just an image is difficult

 

this guy knows the data

 

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Not saying this is the case but maybe these aren't the two changes Khan wants to make but the two he thinks he can realistically get signed off.

And masks outdoors may work for other reasons. For example if you mandate them outside, people see them much more which may lead to more indoor maskwearing as humans are hardwired to socially imitate each other.

 

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

If you wanted a more strict lockdown you could ban all outdoor exercise for 4 weeks, stop households mixing one on one, tell people to work from home etc. I know it’s tough measures but if things are bad maybe they are needed. 

Agree with both of these - also if they mandate masks outdoors, it might just discourage people from going out. I'll just sack off my daily walks as I go out mainly for the fresh air - I hate central heating because it ruins my sinuses but its too cold not to have it on. I hate breathing heavily through a mask (all hills round here!) and my nose runs when its cold so it'd make the mask wet and useless anyway, so happy to just stick with the indoor air when that's the alternative. I'm sure many others will be the same!

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Financial Times statistician - is respected...

 

oh, beat me to it...

[Copperface]

47 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Major incidents are serious of course they are, but they are declared more often than you are perhaps aware - it's not always about a threat to life either. 

It removes a lot of barriers to multi agency working and can trigger business continuity measures for multiple agencies. It can remove a lot of red tape. 

I get the feeling the Mayor of London might be using this as a means to get measures put in place in London over and above the national restrictions. 

 

CCA if invoked can also unlock immediate military assistance, mutual aid from other emergency services, suspension of quite few rights, (possible imposition of curfew for example) and a whole raft of other measures which you probably won't notice in day to day life in relation to authorisations and legalities and operational measures plus resilience of support and security functions.

Also important to distinguish between major or critical incidents declared in hospitals or individual premises, and a major incident declared county or city wide. Very different.

* edited to clarify CCA.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Copperface

[zahidf]

 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

That's a great start.

I'm still a bit worried that the London and SE variant hasn't yet made its way around the rest of the country though.

[xxialac]

In many countries, masks are required outside unless you are:

- eating/drinking

- running/cycling

I think that's a good balance personally, especially as the latter allows for some outdoor exercise.

Seeing them absolutely everywhere is a constant reminder to be on your guard. Unofficially people also take them off if far away from other people and in the countryside.