When will this shit end?

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

I honestly think that, whatever they're saying today, they think they can do it earlier. I'd be shocked if the mid May pub changes aren't moved to the weekend before the local elections, because we should have much much lower strain on hospitals and lower cases by then. I think they want to look cautious because that's prevailing public opinion right now but they know from the fast moving data and even faster vaccination campaign for those most likely to end up in hospital that they could very well smash these targets easily.

Edited February 23, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Or they've made it artificially long with 5 week gaps and under promising on vaccines that they'll almost definitely make the target.

 

I hope you're right!

What I'm referring to is whether big crowds i.e. festivals, sport and other events will be allowed. Will the government not allow these events on June 21 after all?

People will be really pissed off and with good reason if they feel they've been overpromised 21 June.

Setting such a specific date would prove a big mistake.

[Quark]

3 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

This is why I’d like to see mask wearing to continue especially for enclosed environments like public transport. 

I had said to Mrs Q this morning that it'll be interesting to see if there's more of a shift to the SE / E Asian approach where you're more likely to wear a mask when you're a  it under the weather as a courtesy to others to avoid spreading.

[incident]

Just now, st dan said:

So this is an issue that doesn’t bother you, and that’s fine. But it will bother some people - and the tricky part of all this is why are your views on this ‘right’ and theirs are ‘wrong’? Isn’t everybody entitled to their opinion, especially on matters that concerns them and their body?

Someone having an opinion doesn't change the actual Science.

While I certainly don't know all that much about how the body works other than what's explained to me, many of the people I work with are highly qualified in this field and a few of them can be said to be genuine internationally recognised experts.

The whole fertility question amazes me - some people have taken a lack of evidence in one particular area, and used it to imagine a concern about something that (in Biological terms) is entirely different. When the subject first came up, the reaction I saw from my colleagues was along the lines of "Really? We have to waste time debunking this shit?" - though obviously not using those exact words.

Even if I didn't work with them, I'd still be listening to the experts over some random Facebook drivel. Basically, I don't understand the details, so I listen to the people who've spent literal decades studying it and who if needed can explain it to me.

[DirtyLurker]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

 

Genuine question: are you not able to furlough yourself as an employee of your limited company?

With our company set up it just wasn't feasible - kind of how @eFestivals explained but with additional intricacies.

Tbh I was just wallowing in self pity yesterday - I've a roof over my head & food on the table, I am honestly in no position to complain.

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I hope you're right!

What I'm referring to is whether big crowds i.e. festivals, sport and other events will be allowed. Will the government not allow these events on June 21 after all?

People will be really pissed off and with good reason if they feel they've been overpromised 21 June.

Setting such a specific date would prove a big mistake.

There are no legal restrictions on social contact after 21 June. None at all. 

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, Quark said:

I had said to Mrs Q this morning that it'll be interesting to see if there's more of a shift to the SE / E Asian approach where you're more likely to wear a mask when you're a  it under the weather as a courtesy to others to avoid spreading.

hopefully. And along similar lines, and I know this doesn't apply to every industry but at least in those that it can like offices, I hope there is more of a culture where it is mutually agreed for employees to stay at home when ill. 

At my old job the management thoughts were "if you're too ill to come in then you are too ill to work, but if you're well enough to work then you're well enough to come in". But as it was an office job that could easily be done from home i find that short sighted and illogical- so many people eventually got ill because of that type of thinking because all colds etc were just circulated round the (poorly ventilated) office and leading to more actual sick days. Any worries about people not doing their work at home are completely cancelled out by everyone being ill multiple times each year 

[Gilgamesh69]

Thought my european/overseas festival friends would be happy about the news and be wanting to come over here in the summer. But nope.... one of them is saying she doesn't trust the Oxford vaccine because it "changes your DNA", and another guy is saying he has zero faith in UK festivals happening this year. But he think Sziget festival in Hungary will still happen.

 

As for antivaxers how do you even deal with them? LIke do they even google the shit they spread to see if its actually true?

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

There are no legal restrictions on social contact after 21 June. None at all. 

I think you've just proven my point.

That sentence is wrong.

If the data doesn't support it, then there will be legal restrictions on social contact after 21 June.

[music fan]

Though I'm feeling fairly optimistic that all restrictions will be scrapped on 21st June and that festivals will be allowed to go ahead.  It's by no means absolutely definite.  And from what I heard with the PM's announcement and press conference yesterday, we will only be given ONE WEEK'S notice of each stage of lockdown/restrictions easing.  So if the 21st June all easing of restrictions doesn't go ahead/gets pushed back, well that would be no good for festivals and events that were all ready to go ahead in late June/early July!

Even after yesterday's announcements, a few concerts/festivals intended to take place in late June in Bristol have been cancelled. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/bristol-sounds-concerts-cancelled-after-5033439

 

 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

I think you've just proven my point.

That sentence is wrong.

If the data doesn't support it, then there will be legal restrictions on social contact after 21 June.

The whole adult population will have been offered a vaccine by then. Several weeks before then in fact.

 

So the data absolutely will support it. We need to be positive. 

[xxialac]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

The whole adult population will have been offered a vaccine by then. Several weeks before then in fact.

 

So the data absolutely will support it. We need to be positive. 

How did being positive about all the other failed re-openings in the past turn out? Why did the Bristol concerts not share this positivity?

[gazzared]

22 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

It does state that the June 21st date is subject to review so we'll problay know the week before if things need to be restricted a bit longer.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

26 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government have made a massive mistake IMO in messaging here.

People have been given this very specific June 21 date as the official date restrictions end and are going to get very wedded to it.

There will be deep unhappiness and probably significant rule breaking if they have to now pull the plug on this, which must be a decent chance. They could have given some view on what sort of timeframe this then related to based on achieving and failing to meet each milestones.

They'd have been better to make unlocking about milestones, not dates, or make it clearer than the dates were loose approximations.

 

A huge part of that is down to the reporting in the media choosing to ignore the words 'not before'

[st dan]

I think they must very confident of hitting each target by putting specific dates on each step. If they weren’t, they could have kept it much more vague by saying late June/early July etc.  
They also have the natural decline of the virus in the summer months on their side too, to help assist in the reopening - I don’t think the impact this will have can be underestimated. 

[aj6658]

29 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Then don't complain when your views are the "differing" ones and you are the one excluded from society. Once you create an environment where the "other" can be excluded history shows it is used. We aren't as advanced or civilised as we believe 

There are levels to this.

It like me going climate change deniers and people who want Universal basic income have the same level disagreement and debate. They don't. One has debate, the other has 99% of scientists vouching for it.

If my views are whacky and not based on the data and my view puts other people at risk. Then fine, exclude me from society. 

Again, why should I pretend I know more than a doctor on this matter? Waiting to hear your ideas on how to encourage people to take the vaccine? Cos you know, people who don't will put pressure on the NHS/ die/ create mutations but doesn't seem like a big deal to you.

Its not a complicated issue. Follow the experts.

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

How did being positive about all the other failed re-openings in the past turn out? Why did the Bristol concerts not share this positivity?

That was posted yesterday BEFORE the road map was released.

[xxialac]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

A huge part of that is down to the reporting in the media choosing to ignore the words 'not before'

That's very fair. But the government knows exactly how the media will represent their words and they have a tonne of control over the narrative by giving privileged access to the journalists who sing their tune.

And Johnson could have made more of a fuss of the 21 June date being heavily caveated but instead he glossed over it quickly yesterday in his speech.

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, xxialac said:

How did being positive about all the other failed re-openings in the past turn out? Why did the Bristol concerts not share this positivity?

There wasn’t one working vaccine back then, let alone five. 

[Gilgamesh69]

Thing is, I am going to be cautiously optimistic because yeah, maybe things will change and the grand reopening of the economy wont happen on June 21st. But hell, even if its pushed back by a month, that still leaves us with plenty of festivals in august

[zahidf]

If we cant open up more by June 21st with most of the population vaccinated and with it being the summer months, then we are properly Fcked anyway. 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, gazzared said:

It does state that the June 21st date is subject to review so we'll problay know the week before if things need to be restricted a bit longer.

if, for example, the step 3 date slips a few weeks...that means step4 date slips a few weeks too, right? They won't be trying to catch up? So, we could know a lot earlier?

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

There wasn’t one working vaccine back then, let alone five. 

The ambition back then simply not to have to go back into lockdown, let alone have all of hospitality fully open with no social distancing, 100,000 people crammed together in fields and full indoor arenas. 

[incident]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

A huge part of that is down to the reporting in the media choosing to ignore the words 'not before'

I'm pretty sure it was reported exactly how the Government intended for it to be reported.

But then I'm also sure that, despite denials, they're currently hoping/intending to beat the June 21st date and that emphasising that these dates are "not before" is partly to encourage continued caution and vaccine takeup and partly to allow them to beat expectations.

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, gazzared said:

It does state that the June 21st date is subject to review so we'll problay know the week before if things need to be restricted a bit longer.

To be fair if that is to be delayed because of data the writing will be on the wall weeks before that date, I doubt it'll be a surprise by the time we get to that point