When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

Let's hope EU and UK sort it out at Thursday's summit. Need to cool things down a bit and come up with solutions that work for everyone. These companies and plants are based in EU and UK, and any export bans helps no one.

Edited March 22, 2021 by steviewevie

[mcshed]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Only in retaliation 

So you recognise the right to and support in some circumstances an export ban, and you have no qualms about withholding vaccines by commercial means. So why the confected anger?

If the EU does impose it's ban on exporting our vaccines they are being selfish, I don't support it but they are being selfish in the context of a huge public health crisis so I understand it. Just as we are being selfish by ring fencing our own vaccine supply, selfish but understandable.

[Ryan1984]

Do you think the EU is concerned this could look like the ‘sunlit uplands’ of Brexit coming to fruition? (Even though it isn’t - any country could have gone their own way but try telling that to a Leave lover...)

Maybe they’re worried more major countries could look to ‘escape’?

[Radiochicken]

38 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

If they block we block for a start.  They need our raw materials.

If the crisis deepens then a small nuclear strike on Germany.  Maybe take out somewhere no one cares about like Bremen.  The world would only lose Becks brewery.  Far enough away so we don't get radiation but big enough response to shock them back into sense.

Wait. What.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

Do you think the EU is concerned this could look like the ‘sunlit uplands’ of Brexit coming to fruition? (Even though it isn’t - any country could have gone their own way but try telling that to a Leave lover...)

Maybe they’re worried more major countries could look to ‘escape’?

I'm sure that comes into it...but also they have a crisis and need more vaccines.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Yet we, and by "we" I mean both the reactionary wing of this thread and the majority of the British press, save their opprobrium for the EU.

I think some of those posters are worries it’ll effect our ability to relax restrictions and go back to the pub (for example) so are desperate to blame the EU as some form of venting. 

[zahidf]

 

[incident]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

EU are the only side doing this.  The support for this here is very telling.  Deep dislike for our own nation is clear.

Can you stop trying to create division where it doesn't really exist? There's no broad support for the EU's threats here, just a few people who don't understand the subtleties of why the UK or Indian actions are different.

Most of the rest of us recognise the threats from the EU as bluster from politicians trying to cover up their own mistakes - something that happens both in the EU and in the UK (and probably near enough everywhere else on the planet). It doesn't need to be a nationalist thing.

[zahidf]

23 minutes ago, mcshed said:

So you recognise the right to and support in some circumstances an export ban, and you have no qualms about withholding vaccines by commercial means. So why the confected anger?

If the EU does impose it's ban on exporting our vaccines they are being selfish, I don't support it but they are being selfish in the context of a huge public health crisis so I understand it. Just as we are being selfish by ring fencing our own vaccine supply, selfish but understandable.

Lol they have 13.5 millions doses sitting in a fridge. Maybe they should stop trying to blame supply for their own incompetence in getting jabs in arms?

[Fuzzy Afro]

56 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Yet we, and by "we" I mean both the reactionary wing of this thread and the majority of the British press, save their opprobrium for the EU.

Well personally I’m every bit as angry at the Indians for trying to sabotage our route back to normality. 

[Matt42]

22 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Do you think the EU is concerned this could look like the ‘sunlit uplands’ of Brexit coming to fruition? (Even though it isn’t - any country could have gone their own way but try telling that to a Leave lover...)

Maybe they’re worried more major countries could look to ‘escape’?

I voted remain and I still would if I could vote again, but us deviating from the EU on the vaccine roll out could have just saved our country. We could be the first major western country to recover from the virus, and I think there is probably a bit of envy in that. 
 

Of course there is a bit of grunt from the EU that we have a path to prosperity after leaving.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Not sure that nuking Germany is one of the better ideas posed on this thread 😂

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

I voted remain and I still would if I could vote again, but us deviating from the EU on the vaccine roll out could have just saved our country. We could be the first major western country to recover from the virus, and I think there is probably a bit of envy in that. 
 

Of course there is a bit of grunt from the EU that we have a path to prosperity after leaving.

We have only just stopped following EU rules, everything we have done has been under their rules so our success isn’t a benefit of Brexit. 

[zahidf]

Anyway, All eyes on EU leaders to see what the magic 8-ball throws up on Thursday. So far, "AZN vaccine is poison", "Export bans", "Mandatory for the elderly", "Forbidden for the elderly", and "Unscientific pause to give a few people more chance to die" have come up, but we're all eager to see what happens next.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Lol they have 13.5 millions doses sitting in a fridge. Maybe they should stop trying to blame supply for their own incompetence in getting jabs in arms?

Huh? The EU's job is not to organise injections at a per country level.

The EU is a trading block.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

Huh? The EU's job is not to organise injections at a per country level.

The EU is a trading block.

 

It’s also important to note that the EMA didn’t suspend the AZ vaccine either, that was individual countries too. 

[incident]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

But it so clearly is a nationalist thing.  Its us and them - that's how the EU are setting this up and many posters are coming down once again on the side of the EU.

Most people are condemning the threats and recognising that the EU have fucked up their rollout and are trying to save face, along with a much smaller handful who are asking how their actions are different from those of the UK or India.

Neither of those match your statement.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

It’s also important to note that the EMA didn’t suspend the AZ vaccine either, that was individual countries too. 

Absolutely and half the countries that did weren't even in the bloody EU.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The fact the EMA exists shows the EU is far from just a trading block 

The fact that each EU country was able to unilaterally suspend the use of AZ without EMA approval shows that EMA does not have too much power. 

[incident]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

The fact that each EU country was able to unilaterally suspend the use of AZ without EMA approval shows that EMA does not have too much power. 

Sorry but that logic doesn't follow at all.

The UK government could, if it desired, choose to suspend use of any given medicine or vaccine without MHRA approval - so by that definition the MHRA doesn't have much power within the UK.

[mcshed]

40 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

EU are the only side doing this.  The support for this here is very telling.  Deep dislike for our own nation is clear.

I don't dislike the UK, I don't even support what the EU might be doing it just doesn't surprise me.

It would be nice to live in a perfect world where the whole world came together to fight this as one and vaccines were delivered to those who were most vulnerable and most in need first but that is a fairy tale, in reality the most powerful get theirs first. Because of this system my mum has had her vaccine and I will certainly get mine before most people on the planet so I should perhaps be grateful that we are playing strongest first. Given that is the game we are playing and we are winning I can't get too angry about other people also throwing their weight around to get theirs.

In short as with virtually every conversation with you: calm down dear.

Edited March 22, 2021 by mcshed

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, incident said:

Sorry but that logic doesn't follow at all.

The UK government could, if it desired, choose to suspend use of any given medicine or vaccine without MHRA approval - so by that definition the MHRA doesn't have much power within the UK.

But I'm agreeing with you entirely!

The UK government can overrule MHRA.

And similarly EU states can (and have) overrule EMA.

These agencies don't have too much power.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I don't dislike the UK, I don't even support what the EU might be doing it just doesn't surprise me.

It would be nice to live in a perfect world where the whole world came together to fight this as one and vaccines were delivered to those who were most vulnerable and most in need first but that is a fairy tale, in reality the most powerful get there's first. Because of this system my mum has had her vaccine and I will certainly get mine before most people on the planet so I should perhaps be grateful that we are playing strongest first. Given that is the game we are playing and we are winning I can't get too angry about other people also throwing their weight around to get theirs.

In short as with virtually every conversation with you: calm down dear.

It would be lovely if the pandemic taught us that we need to work together to achieve success instead of forging battles!

[zahidf]

 

[incident]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

But I'm agreeing with you entirely!

The UK government can overrule MHRA.

And similarly EU states can (and have) overrule EMA.

These agencies don't have too much power.

Ah, gotcha.

Though I don't agree that it translates to not having power - it's simply not their role to lay down a prescriptive "you must use this" approach, there's other bodies that determine how and when something is used, the regulators just determine that something is safe (or not) to use. They've each got a lot of power in the sense they could, if they needed to, block something from being used within their respective areas.